What do we mean by “a good marriage”?
When we say, “I want a good marriage”, what, exactly, are we talking about?
- A marriage that lasts 50 years?
- A marriage that doesn’t divorce?
- A marriage that produces great kids?
- A marriage that follows God’s “created order” of a husband leading and a wife submitting?
- A marriage that makes us happy?
- A marriage that makes us holy?
Last week on the Bare Marriage podcast (episode 267), we shared a clip of Lisa Chan, wife of Francis Chan, talking about her grandmother, who stuck with her grandfather his whole life, despite his addiction and how terrible he was to her. It was a touching story, but we talked about how holding this up as the ideal can distort God’s message about boundaries.
Should we consider their marriage “good” because it lasted and she didn’t divorce?
When we were writing The Marriage You Want, we needed a way to measure “good marriage.”
Our whole goal in writing that book was to ask the question, “what sorts of things lead to a good marriage? If we wanted to build a good marriage from the ground-up, what would it include? What things are associated with having a good marriage?”
To answer those questions, though, we had to first answer, “what makes a good marriage”?
And it seems to us that this is something that Christian marriage books often fail to do, because they tend to focus on whether or not the marriage lasts, and whether or not you are fulfilling certain roles.
Can we take a step back and look at what researchers have found makes a “good marriage”? And for that, I’m going to turn it over to Joanna Sawatsky, our stats guru and our co-author for The Great Sex Rescue and She Deserves Better!
Here’s Joanna:
Researchers have spent a long time trying to pin down what makes a marriage good.
And to that end they have developed a TON of different scales which measure relationship quality. Basically, researchers have tried to figure out “what do people consider a good marriage”, and then they’ve found ways to measure that. They looked at what makes people least likely to divorce, but also what gives the most happiness and sense of joy in life. And it all comes down to feeling a sense of closeness and a sense of being in this together. You’re supported and seen.
Rebecca and I have spent many phone calls talking about what we like and dislike about each scale (nerd alert). When we went to design the survey for The Marriage You Want, I was thrilled that we got to include so many (thanks so much to all of our wonderful participants who filled out such long surveys!)
The scales we used included:
- The Couple’s Satisfaction Index – which is an excellent, brass tacks, no-nonsense marital satisfaction survey.
- The Kansas Marital Conflict Scale – which measures specifically how well couples’ handle disagreements and arguments.
- The Trust in Close Relationships Scale – which is a lovely scale which measures how dependable your spouse is, how much trust you have in them, and how much you can rely on them.
- The Relationship Flourishing Scale – which is an aspirational scale which asks about how well your relationship allows you to self-actualize and how much your relationship… flourishes.
And then we used many questions from the Female Sexual Function Index, which looks at sexual satisfaction and sexual dysfunction.
After we closed the survey in January of 2024, I got to analyzing our data.
And (to the surprise of zero people who have training in psychometrics) all of the scales are highly correlated. But I didn’t have room to put in 4 different scales (plus associations with questions about sexual satisfaction) on every other page. So it was time to pare back! We talked about going back and forth between scales within chapters. Or maybe we’d highlight one scale for one section and then another scale for another section.
But then we realized that this is a marriage book about the marriage you WANT, not the marriage you can “tolerate for 50 years” or the marriage you are white knuckling it through to get to your heavenly reward.
So we chose to use the relationship flourishing scale as our main scale that we used in the book for the graphs. (And wow there are a lot!)
Jesus said that he came to give us life and life abundantly. So let’s enjoy each other and seek to have relationships that flourish and embrace being examples of the abundant life in Christ.
Thanks, Joanna!
What I love about these scales is that they’ve been proven to be accurate measures of something real.
That’s why you use previously validated question sets in surveys, as best practices, as much as you can. Because people have already developed these scales, and have shown that they do indeed measure something real. They measure whether people feel close, are able to share their hearts, and thrive.
One of my big prayers is that we in the Christian church can start thinking about marriage this way: That we need to actually show good fruit. And that means we have to define it!
The Marriage You Want is HERE March 11!
(And the Launch Team is OPEN!)
Our new marriage book is almost here!
Pre-order it now--and get pre-order bonuses and an invite to the launch team--so you can start reading right away!
Over the next month, as we’re getting ready for the launch of The Marriage You Want on March 11 (don’t forget to join our launch team now and send in your preorder receipt! ) we’re going to look more at what it takes to have a great marriage–and why we often forget some of the most basic things.
We’ll talk about how you can actually measure great marriages–and measure what detracts from marital satisfaction.
And we’ll remind you that God actually delights when we flourish–not just when we suffer!
I’m looking forward to this series as we look at why it is that Christians especially have had a hard time articulating what they mean by “good marriage”, and how we need to rectify that.
So stay tuned, because the lead up to The Marriage You Want launching is going to be AWESOME!
Together, we can spread the word about what good marriages look like–and you’re allowed to want a good marriage!
What do you think makes a good marriage? What were you taught was most important about a “Christian” marriage? Let’s talk in the comments!
The Good Marriage Series
- What makes a good marriage?
- What's the difference between a "Christian marriage" and a "good marriage"?
- How do we judge a tree by its fruit when it comes to marriage?
- 4 Things you're allowed to expect from your spouse
- Should marriage make you holy or happy?
- How do you make decisions together when you can't agree?
- PODCAST: Why Teamwork is Part of the Good Marriage Package (January 30)
And don't forget to pre-order The Marriage You Want and send in your receipt for your preorder goodies and invite to the launch team!
I’ve long thought each person should put their spouse first, above their own ego, their job, and other people in their lives.
If one spouse fails to do that, it because a very one-sided and toxic marriage, quickly. If both fail to do that, it’s probably better than one spouse dropping the ball (at least it isn’t one sided); however, it will limp along until the kids graduate high school, and then it’s done.
Sexually, why the hell are you in bed with someone if you don’t want to please that person? Why are you in bed if you don’t want to make it a fulfilling experience for both?
I think so many people are taught that women don’t care about sex, and God designed men to use women’s bodies. And so they just don’t think women’s lack of pleasure is an issue.
As a Christian, I believe in putting God first, according to Matthew 6:33. Nowhere in the Bible does it give the order of who to put next, yet I believe we are to consider the needs of others ahead of ourselves according to Philippians 2:4. I believe those to be the foundational things to make a marriage great. Of course, BOTH people need to be doing that. BOTH people need to be communicating, taking time out for each other, and equally contributing to the household. It does not matter who does what. I have female cousins whose husbands do the cooking and laundry while they do the outdoor stuff. There are stay-at-home dads in my family.
I think the fixation on gender roles makes marriage hard. I have a friend who attended a “biblical womanhood” Bible study which focused on prescribed gender roles. In this Bible study, it was instructed that her husband take over the finances regarding of how poor he was at managing money. But this friend was told that if she adhere to this rule that God would grant her favor and build her husband’s character and strengthen him in his role as “head of the house.” Mind you, this was not a young couple. She was around 50 and he was close to 70. So, to me, these prescribed gender roles just become burdens. BTW, the woman who taught this biblical womanhood study was the pastors wife who was not allowed to wear jeans or cut her hair.
That’s so sad!
Time was when we discussed vocation and calling. Ability, interest, aptitude and opportunity made a good case for ‘calling.’
Take a woman. Give her an IQ of 185. Make her a professor of quantum mechanics. She can casually discuss quantum gravity or Time’s Arrow at a moment’s notice.
Now in a ladies Bible study with her peers, she tries to fit that burning intellect into the confines of ‘wives, submit …’ as it relates to watching her husband’s paint job … dry.
People who see no problem there shouldn’t be writing books. People who read them stand to be warned. People who promote them stand to be corrected publicly …
… just as you are doing.
Exactly! Thank you.
I bet lots of women would love to be treated the same way after the wedding as before it.
How many of us thought marriage meant getting to finally have great sex with our boyfriends?
Regarding your last paragraph: (raises hand) me. I thought that it meant having great sex and building a life together with my boyfriend.
Me too! And I thought that all the red flags I was seeing would stop waving…
The husband would also like to be treated the same after the wedding as before.
In what ways do you feel they are not?
I guess I was disillusioned when we first were married. I was in the service for 22yrs and was away alot with training and multiple deployments to Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan and time was at a premium for us and we really invested in that time. Now 11 yrs later, the kids are grown and we just struggle with our time together.
Is seeing a counselor a possibility for y’all? Maybe that could help you get to the heart of what has changed both in positive and negative ways, and direct the efforts most worthwhile for improving the marriage? Having adult kid(s) is very different than the busyness and planned family activities that come with raising them. I know a lot of couples struggle with that transition.
I hope this is just a season and you and your wife can work your way back to a closer marriage. Praying for you now.
I was taught that any man and woman can have a good and happy marriage as long as they’re both Christians. smh. And the second most important thing was leadership and submission. You can see by my moniker how well that worked out.
Exactly, that’s what most of us are taught. Marry a Christian, and fulfill gender roles. And that’s a great marriage!
The idea that I find the most challenging from this last series of posts is that “abundant life,” “good fruit” and “flourishing” are primarily related to our emotional experiences in the here and now. Can we really know with any degree of certainty what God really cares about with respect to our human lives? Or expect any type of consistency in what he wants for different individuals?
Why do some people go through a very challenging, years- or decades-long relational experience (not necessarily marriage), and conclude that it made them a better person? Less selfish? That seeking emotional happiness would have been a shortcut that prevented them from growing in character?
But then other people go through an analogous experience and are absolutely crushed by it, left a shell of a person, filled with resentment, regret or bitterness, and the sense that their life was wasted?
What makes the difference between these two scenarios?
It’s often presented that the Holy Spirit makes it possible for someone to live in the first way- growing in “long suffering”, being “polished” by learning to live with difficult personalities around them.
But I have come to question that conclusion. Recently I heard a report about studies of resiliency, and that some people are naturally more resilient than others. The contrast was described as “dandelions” vs “orchids,” and, while everyone has the potential for some learning and growth, it’s a fixed personality trait that we are basically born with.
So, could it be that Christianity idealizes the “dandelion” personality type and attributes it to divine intervention through the Holy Spirit?
That’s interesting! I’m going to have to think on that.
Dandelions and orchids…
That’s an excellent analogy, right up there with whichever enneagram number is the “ideal” Christian woman, except that most women aren’t that type, so they fold themselves into pretzels instead of just being who God made them to be.
“Here’s your box, and if you don’t fit in it, then you’re a rebellious backsliding sinner who may not even be a believer!”
Jo, what great questions and insights!
Here is my perspective, admittedly mostly from (non-romantic, non-sexual) friendships, family relationships, and work relationships that particularly “flourished”:
I would describe “flourishing” not as a primarily emotional state, but a state of fulfillment and productivity. When I am “well-matched” with someone, we each bring out the best versions of each other, when we spend time together. We not only see the best in each other, we see better things in each other than we can see in ourselves; we constantly inspire each other to be better people and do better things. We are forever watering and tending each other like gardens. We know each other better than we know ourselves. We can clearly identify the other’s weaknesses – but, surprise, we see those weaknesses as strengths! We challenge each other across the full range of each other’s talents and capabilities. We can each recommend hobbies, interests, books, music, people that the other person would really be interested in (and we’re nearly always right). We will work harder than we’d ever imagined on behalf of or with the other person – but it feels energizing. Teaming up on a project large or small, we can accomplish, together, more than we ever could individually. We are, together, far more than the sum of our parts. It’s totally obvious to us – but, perhaps oddly, the world often perceives it not so much as “Us” but as each of us being really great and wonderful – made much better in their perception by our relationship with the other.
This is how I describe a flourishing relationship. It’s far deeper and wider than just “feelings.”
That’s a very interesting observation! Could you please share a link to the study? I’d love to read up on it myself!
On a similar note, my therapist told me yesterday that the same event can be very traumatic to someone or not traumatic at all depending on whether they’ve got a good emotional support network.
Sometimes I feel like I fell through the cracks at church growing up, socially and emotionally. I wonder sometimes if that’s related to the church/belief trauma I went through? I never felt a sense of safeness or belonging at church—the one place I was told I should belong at!
Certainly, I think evangelical culture makes an awful emotional support group to begin with! Someone’s confused, despairing, heartbroken? Just pat them on the shoulder with a bible verse or two and send them on their way! If they’re still upset, they’re just not trusting God enough! Well-intentioned, but oh so hurtful.
I wonder how many of us would have been more like the dandelions if we’d been cared for? I certainly hope we can become more resilient with time and healing!
“Pat them on the shoulder with a bible verse or two…” Sounds kind of like “go in peace, be warm and well fed,” doesn’t it? I got so worn out with the bible verses and the prayers, but no one would sit down and listen to me!