Four months ago I had never heard of Ballerina Farm.
When someone–I think my oldest daughter–told me about her social media account, I still couldn’t understand the name. It’s a farm for ballerinas?
But as I’ve been hearing more and more about trad wife content, she’s kept coming up.
And then last week the profile of Hannah Neeleman (her real name) and her family of eight kids with her husband dropped in The Times.
I’ve received so many messages from readers wanting my take on it, and there are a few things I’d like to say.
Ballerina Farm’s story is so sad.
After reading it I had to take a deep breath, shut my computer down, and just think for a while.
Today we know her as a 34-year-old who spends her days baking bread, tending the chickens, and making everything from scratch for her 8 kids. All while staying very, very attractive.
The article showed a different side: It depicted a woman who was raised in a super conservative home, but who actually had a chance to do something big with her life. She’s talented, and she ended up in Juilliard to study ballet. (Only 12 students are accepted every year; this was a big deal).
But while there, she met Daniel, her now husband. She didn’t want to date him, but he arranged to be seated next to her on a flight (his dad owned the airline), and the relationship started. They dated for a month before they were engaged. She wanted to delay the wedding so she could finish school and dance; he said no.
They married two months later, and were pregnant soon afterwards. Her ballet career was over.
And it’s clear she still misses it. She had a ballet studio set up at her farm, though that’s been taken over by the kids now.
And a few things struck me reading the profile:
Ballerina Farm’s life is not her own in any tangible way
She’s the brand, but the LLC is in his name. The reporter kept wanting to get her alone to talk to her, but the husband dominated the interview, giving her a tour and not letting her talk to Hannah, keeping saying, “she’ll be here in a minute.”
She finally was able to grab a few words with her outside of the husband’s hearing, and in those few minutes Hannah gave one of the biggest reveals of the interview, talking about pain medication during delivery (she’s famous for deliverating naturally, at home, in her bedroom):
“I don’t know, I just have never loved taking it.” She stops herself. “Except with Martha — I was two weeks overdue and she was 10lb and Daniel wasn’t with me … ” She lowers her voice. Daniel is currently out of the room taking a phone call. “So I got an epidural. And it was an amazing experience.” Where was Daniel that day? “It was shipping day [for the meat boxes] and he was manning the crew.” But the epidural was kind of great? She pauses — and smiles. “It was kinda great.”
Here’s my question: She must have known that tidbit would make it into the story. At some level, she must have wanted it too. Or else she was just so desperate to tell the truth to someone, to share a secret that she’s not allowed to share; to do something just a bit naughty.
This is a woman who, it seems, would likely choose pain medication if her husband wasn’t around–because the one time he wasn’t there and she was in the hospital instead of at home, she did.
And I start to wonder:
Whose dream are they living out?
When asked, Hannah told her interviewer Megan Agnew that both she and her husband had made sacrifices for their lifestyle–she had given up her dream of ballet, and her husband had given up his career ambitions.
But here’s how Agnew explained it in the interview:
I look out at the vastness and don’t totally agree. Daniel wanted to live in the great western wilds, so they did; he wanted to farm, so they do; he likes date nights once a week, so they go (they have a babysitter on those evenings); he didn’t want nannies in the house, so there aren’t any.
The only space earmarked to be Neeleman’s own — a small barn she wanted to convert into a ballet studio — ended up becoming the kids’ schoolroom.
And Daniel even admitted that their lifestyle often left Hannah so ill she couldn’t get out of bed for a week. Looking after 8 kids; being pregnant or nursing constantly; all while doing everything from scratch without nannies (they do have someone who homeschools their kids) is a lot.
Again, whose dream is this?
She Deserves Better!
Because we all deserve a big faith.
Your daughter deserves better than what you likely grew up with in church.
What would it look like to prepare the next generation without toxic teachings about modesty, sex, or consent, and instead set her up for a big faith?
Then there’s the infamous birthday present.
Since the article came out, a reel from Ballerina Farm’s channel has been making the rounds on social media. It’s her birthday, and her husband has a gift for her, and he’s filming her opening it. It’s just a small cardboard shipping package (he didn’t bother to open it and put it in a gift bag or anything).
Yall think that ballerina farms article is bad 🤭
— 🤠 (@sisogynist) July 24, 2024
Look what he got her for her birthday… the billionaire that owns an AIRLINE & listen… pic.twitter.com/8vMmv0DmDf
She’s excited and expresses several times that she hopes it’s the tickets to Greece for the trip she really wants to take–and that she’s been telling him about.
But when she gets it out, it’s an egg apron, with slots for collecting eggs from the chickens.
He raves about it, and she says thank you, and you hear him reply “you’re welcome.”
Here’s a man who is the heir to the JetBlue fortune, and he gave his wife an apron for her birthday–his wife, who is the face of the social media channel that brings in their current income.
Now, there’s nothing wrong with an egg apron. I bought my girls something from Etsy for Christmas that was a knitting needle organizer that arrived in similar packaging and was pretty analagous. But I also got them some other stuff!
When you can afford a good gift; when your wife has asked you specifically for something; and then when you give her something so, so much smaller than that, while filming for your social media channel so that she has to be grateful, it seems like a set up.
And this is where I’m going to say something that I’m very scared of, that is just my impression from watching all of this:
It seems as if he is really enjoying how caged he has made her.
The interviewer made a point of saying how Daniel rarely left her alone with Megan, and often answered for her:
I can’t, it seems, get an answer out of Neeleman without her being corrected, interrupted or answered for by either her husband or a child. Usually I am doing battle with steely Hollywood publicists; today I am up against an army of toddlers who all want their mum and a husband who thinks he knows better.
It is not enough to put a woman in a cage; you have to put a woman in a cage who had choices, who could have done something else with her life.
It seems very fetish like, and it seems to fit with the fact that so many consumers of trad wife content are male.
What if the point of the tradwife life is not the baking bread and giving up on career aspirations and homeschooling a ton of kids while making everything from scratch? What if it’s actually that a man was able to convince a woman to do all of that, and was able to hover over her enough that she has no way of prioritizing herself at all? What if it’s about a husband who wants to be able to brag that he has caged someone?
That’s what their dating story looks like:
“Back then I thought we should date for a year [before marriage],” she continues. “So I could finish school and whatever. And Daniel was, like, ‘It’s not going to work, we’ve got to get married now.’ ” After a month they were engaged. Two months after that they were married, moving into an apartment Daniel rented on the Upper West Side. And three months after that she was pregnant, the first Juilliard undergraduate to be expecting “in modern history”.
He was a rich man who came from a conservative Mormon community. He could have married a woman whose only aspirations were being a wife and a mom.
But instead he chose a woman who was on the path to success because she was extraordinary. He wouldn’t take no for an answer. And he made sure that all the things she enjoyed and loved were buried.
Could it be that that is the real rush?
To take a woman who could have been something big, and be able to show to the world that her entire world orbits around you?
The interview certainly painted Hannah Neeleman as someone who is exhausted, in over her head, and not able to prioritize her own well-being or what she wants.
Perhaps the interview was slanted, of course. But looking at her reels, especially the birthday one, I don’t think so.
And Neeleman’s image, social media posts, etc., are all owned by her husband, not her. She is the brand; he is the owner. How would she get out of that? (If you’re in a similar situation, please call a lawyer for a consult! Many give free consults).
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We can’t do much for Hannah Neeleman, but we can talk honestly to our own daughters.
Here’s what I want young women to know
It doesn’t matter:
- how romantic he seems,
- how much he pursues you,
- how much he claims to love you,
- how much money he has,
- how much he promises you
If he plans your future without taking your own plans into consideration; if he doesn’t accept your no; if he ignores your own path and your own desires, he is not a match for you.
He doesn’t love YOU; he loves the image of you with him.
It reminds me of the breakup between Lucy and Cecil in the wonderful movie A Room with a View, an adaptation of the novel of the same name. (It’s from the 80s, but it is so well done, and everyone should watch it at some point)!
Lucy had been engaged to be married to a rich man named Cecil, who didn’t fit in with her family and who found fault in everything. She finally realized (thanks to help from George, whom she does eventually marry) that what she thought was love wasn’t real love.
I just wish that those in a position like Hannah could channel some of Helena Bonham-Carter’s words here and remember that it is not love if someone just wants you because you’re like a gorgeous painting they can own and show off (It’s really just the first minute and fifteen seconds of this clip):
Love cares about what you care about. Love considers your desires before their own. Love gives you energy to live out your dreams; it doesn’t squash them. Love delights in you being yourself; it doesn’t try to cage you or overshadow you.
Real love lets you be the real you.
And that’s what I wish for Hannah Neeleman.
I have never heard of Ballerina Farm. Hannah’s story is very heartbreaking and unfortunately, there are a lot of women in her situation. They may not have 8 children and a rich husband. She could be living in a dilapitaded single-wide trailer with a husband who refuses to get a job, but she has to work 3 jobs to pay the bills and be expected to do all the housework and cook every single day. A friend of mine was in a marriage like that. Her husband worked full-time, but when he came home, he just laid around but after she had worked several jobs in a day, he expected her to clean house and cook him an elaborate meal. Leftovers were not acceptable. I’m so glad she left him and thankfully, they never had children. Or this woman could be middle-class with a good job, but the husband cannot hold down a job because of his drinking and horribel temper. He beats her when he’s drunk and angry. They have to move a lot because he gets bored living in one place for long. These women I have mentioned here may not have Hannah’s life, but they have the same kind of husband who wants to control her and get his way all the time.
With the way American politics has gotten, I hate to say this, but I’m afraid if a certain candidate gets elected, we may revert back to the days where women could not have credit cards and had to have a man cosign a loan for them. Then there’s all these theobros and well-known pastors like Doug Wilson (Christ Church in Moscow, Idaho) who think women should not have rights. Then there’s all these trad wife accounts on social media.
There will probably be a video exposé documentary about this family within the next 10-15 years. I feel so incredibly sad for her. The “9 months” comments were appalling!! It means he’s probably not even waiting for her to fully heal from the last delivery before wanting more sex from her. 💔
My story COULD look a lot like Hannah’s. I, too, wanted to pursue ballet professionally (although she clearly was more talented & had better training than I did), and was pretty relentlessly pursued by a guy who wanted a “tradwife” kind of life. Unlike Hannah, he was very uncomfortable with ballet because he felt the clothing was too immodest & wanted me to quit. He gave me a waffle maker for Christmas. I eventually broke up with him, and married another man who encouraged me to pursue my dreams & has always given me space to explore my passions. I wound up dancing semi- professionally, and now I teach ballet & work on the administrative side of a professional ballet company. I love what I do. I am also 34. We just had our first baby.
Our choices lead us down such different paths… it’s so interesting (and scary) to think about what could have been, if I had married the first guy. He was not interested in supporting what I was interested in. He wanted me to marry him & stay home and have babies. The craziest part is that he didn’t even have a job at that point! I’m still not sure how he planned to support this family he wanted… maybe I would have had to start an instagram account and become an influencer…
Yikes. I’m getting serious Fifty Shades of Grey vibes from this story – super-rich bazillionaire spies pretty college undergraduate who has aspirations and dreams for her own career, sweeps her off her feet with a jet-setting lifestyle and the whole insta-love kit and caboodle, and they “live happily ever after”… except it’s far from that. In reality, Christian and Ana’s relationship was deeply abusive in so many ways – he controlled every facet of her life from where she went to who she spoke to, even buying the company she worked for. And the scariest similarity between this couple and Christian/Ana? Both men bought seats next to the women they stalked (yes, I said it) on commercial flights. Granted, Christian wasn’t present on that flight; he did it so no one else would sit next to Ana, but you get the idea. I sincerely hope this poor girl is able to break free from this relationship and get herself and those kids out of there. God has far bigger plans for her than to be shackled to a controlling man who only seeks glory for himself, not his Creator.
As someone who has been following Hannah for a few years, I think it would be wise to bear in mind that Daniel has helped her to pursue her dream of competing in pageants, and is seen often caring for the kids on his own or making meals. Hannah has also mentioned on ig that Daniel has some kind of sleep disorder so he often is working on very little sleep ( not just sailing along while she suffers). I think it’s unwise to jump to these conclusions based on a clearly biased interview, especially when you haven’t even followed Ballerina Farm on ig for any length of time, let alone know Hannah in real life.
I’d also like to point out that Hannah goes to a gym regularly in her ig stories ( wish I could do that) while someone watches at least some of her kids, she is constantly talking about the dairy being a dream of hers, the new store being a dream of HERS. And I think it’s disrespectful and dismissive to assume that she’s lying about those things being HER dreams. Her family has gone on vacation to Hawaii at least twice while I’ve been following her, as well as a couple other amazing looking road trips and Daniel is ALWAYS with her, helping her. I’m puzzled why you haven’t taken the time to look into Daniel’s ig account ( which I also follow, @hogfathering, if you’re interested), because he appears to be VERY involved which is something all us mother’s are constantly wishing for in our husbands, right? I know I am. I could go on, but suffice to say, I think you rushed to conclusions on this one.
I agree 100%. I’ve often thought “wow….what an amazing husband and dad”. A lot of assumptions are being made about a woman who appears to be following her dreams…but people are deciding they’re “actually her husband’s dreams”. Which, ok, but that’s an assumption right???
The world would be a lot better if millionaires out there did this with their money.
I’ve followed Ballarina Farm for years. As someone who works in agriculture I find it amusing that people only recently realized that they had a lot of money. Anyone who has had to build a dairy barn knows what kind of money it takes.
The article Sheila is referencing is incredibly petty, picking on things that almost all women love to brag about, such as having unmedicated births.
Accusing a woman who farms with her husband, grew up working in a family business, competes in beauty pageants at a high level, has lots of children, and also runs a business as being the poster woman for trad wives seems ridiculous to me.
Plus, they’re Mormon. If you look at her sister’s account, it’s the same thing. Gorgeous women, lots of money, lots of kids. So what? I enjoy Hannah’s account (AND her husband’s) and I’ll keep following it.
Nobody said anyone had to stop following them, and you’re free to think what you want. But to some of us, there are some SERIOUSLY concerning aspects of the story, and Sheila is nto the only one who has said so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_eoIgiMR-M — just one example.
Of course he will “let” her do this or that or “support” her here and there. It’s part of the covert abuser game! Otherwise it’d be too obvious.The videos are not reality! Of course he’ll show himself helping here and there in the videos. The egg apron video clearly shows how he sees her and how little he values her, how he subtly demand and controls her. They went to Hawaii on vacation a couple times…she goes to the gym…so…because of those two things she’s not under oppression? My oh my. I’m sorry, but those of us who lived in an emotionally abusive marriage can see all the red flags in this relationship.
How heartening to see that your story took a different turn!
Oops! This comment was in response to Emily’s.
While reading your take on this I think what you’ve said could be the reality, but I think we don’t have enough to go on to make him out to be a villian. I think they are at best disconnected from themselves and each other. But I think we should be careful talking about them like this, they could simply be victims of the false teachings you battle against so well. Thanknyou for helping me find freedom.
So very sad. I think you’re spot on with the fetish theory. The DSM-5 discusses fetishism, and it’s my belief that fetishism is a growing problem in our world. Perhaps a result of intense, sexualized marketing?
As I read the article, I was remind of the folk tale, Bluebeard, which is about a man who marries women for their money and then murders them, storing their bodies in a locked room. While the husband at Ballerina Farm is abusing one woman, the plot feels the same: own her, cage her, kill her bit by bit, and lock her away from the world. Folk tales are full of this trope – men controlling and caging women.
I’m curious about her upbringing, too. Why did she feel like she had to date him, to say yes to his pressure to marry, etc.? Someone set her up for this life, probably by telling her she has low value and that she’s difficult to love. Women get that story a lot.
They were both raised Mormons…
I can’t help but be reminded of the stories of swan maidens, the beautiful women who could turn into swans with their feathered robes. Of course, along comes some awful man who steals her robe, and forces her to marry him, live a monotonous life as a human housewife, and bear his children.
If you ever see this, Hannah, I’m so sorry that this man has stolen your wings. This is not what marriage was meant to be.
I pray you’ll fly again one day.
“I’m curious about her upbringing, too. Why did she feel like she had to date him, to say yes to his pressure to marry, etc.? Someone set her up for this life, probably by telling her she has low value and that she’s difficult to love. Women get that story a lot.”
I’m no expert on the Mormon faith, but I do know that there’s a good deal of emphasis on marrying young and raising a family, very similar to that Christian fundie circles, so that would be my initial guess.
My understanding is that Mormon wives are dependent upon their husband’s approval for security in the afterlife, and it takes a strong, brave woman to risk both her current life and eternal future.
I hope she didn’t sign her rights away in a prenup. She deserves her portion of a financial settlement if she ever decides to divorce.
Your advice at the end of the article makes me think of Anne of Green Gables.
Marilla reminds Anne that Gilbert gave up the Avonlea school for her, and picked her up in the carriage daily so they could study together.
She tells Anne that she has an imagined ideal of what romance is, but not to toss away real love for something that doesn’t exist.
Gilbert wasn’t flashy or rich, but he loved Anne and made sacrifices for her, even when she didn’t love him.
Not a direct metaphor, but it came to mind when I read that Mr ballerina couldn’t even sacrifice a quick wedding date for his fiancée to finish school.
Yes!!! I still love Anne of Green Gables. I even named one of my daughters Anne.
It might add some missing context to note that many men give their wives ( and wives give their husbands) less than exciting gifts. I think holding Daniel to a higher standard then we hold our own families is silly. And we don’t know that they WONT go to Greece in the future. Also, I’d like to point out that Daniel sitting next to her on that flight is the stuff considered “romantic” in novels that most of these “feminists” read, so I find the concern with that a bit puzzling. And let’s not forget that they are Mormons, and unless you live under a rock, you know that their way of life is different. Also, as to the epidural, I know women who whisper about recieving one because of the backlash from other WOMEN. So I think to assume that Daniel is in the bedroom forcing her to submit to natural birth without pain meds is just that, an assumption. I’ve also noticed, in my daily viewing of Hannah’s ig stories, that she and Daniel go on regular dates, which is another goal in most marriages, right? I think to run Daniel through the mud while making assumptions about his character ( and also Hannah’s) is less than gracious, and could’ve been handled better with a bit more time and research put into your article.
Um, why do you think “ stuff considered “romantic” in novels that most of these “feminists” read,” is an accurate statement? That’s so bizarre! Most feminists actually would find such a scenario in a cheap romance exactly as problematic as Sheila has described, because it is. And as to the secret epidural, as a midwife I have watched many men try to strong arm their wives into a “natural” birth and shame them if they “cave” for pain relief. And I make sure to tell the men it is NOT their decision. I’ve had to ask them pointedly just how small they need the opening stitches when they try to “joke” about me adding an extra stitch or two for their pleasure (puke). So far you haven’t described any context that improves Daniel’s controlling behavior toward his property/wife.
I loathe novels where the male protagonist does stuff like call the airline and arrange to sit next to her on a flight. It’s creepy.
Why not, I don’t know, offer her a ride home from the airport and bring some fresh groceries to her place? “Here’s some milk for your morning coffee, some snacking fruit, and a premade quiche. You can have a fresh breakfast tomorrow morning without hauling out to the store after a long day of travel.”
From what I’ve observed from following both Daniel and Hannah for several years, he actually does all of these things. He is always with the children, helping her in the kitchen, cleaning the house with her, etc etc. Not to mention Hannah has stated more than once that Daniel has a sleep disorder. They both are clearly exhausted a lot of the time. That’s what happens when you’re building a business. To speculate wildly that there’s nefarious stuff going on behind the scenes just seems crazy to me.
Yes, very true!
Been there – twice – still am. We’re deceived into believing that we are pleasing God, and try to convince ourselves that we are happy because everyone in our clan tells us we are. Church tells us we’re not trying hard enough. And once we realise that we’re trapped, well, they’ve arranged things so that the bars of the cage are very fast. Why, after 8 years of freedom, did I get trapped again? I believed in the dream, still, and thought that the abuse part was very rare, and besides, #1 had driven me out of town financially and by ruining my reputation. The information and support was not available at the time.
Prayers for your situation Connie. There are some good resources on how to get strong (while staying or leaving) by Leslie Vernick and others. It took me ten years to get to a stable financial place where I felt capable of leaving, but mostly because I would not give up on the dream. My hope is that you are able to get resources faster and to become safe soon. It is possible, so I hope you will not feel defeated. All the best!
I’ve never heard of this Farm before, but that Daniel guy gives me major creeps. I don’t think the original interviewer had to spin anything for that to come through.
– Daniel uses his position with the company to sit next to her on a flight
– Won’t even wait long enough for her to finish her degree
– They can hire a babysitter so that they can go on a date night, but not any other time so that Hannah can have a break. They do realize that in the past, many women (even in rural areas) had female kin (NOT their children, same age bracket or older adults) come over to help with their children, especially while the kids were tiny?
– The one space that was Hannah’s was turned into yet another kid’s area
– At least once while Hannah was in labour, Daniel was off working instead of staying with her. (And don’t give me the “He has a business to run” excuse, he is a big money heir who could have easily hired or delegated help. Far poorer farmers have made time for their wives when needed). Although, since him being absent was the only time she got an epidural, I’m not sure him being present for labour would actually help her.
-The apron gift sounded mean spirited if that was her only gift, especially if Hannah was hoping for a vacation (that I’m sure he can afford several times over, mind you).
Is it too harsh to say that I won’t be surprised if we eventually see an obituary for Hannah due to pregnancy complications, and then an engagement announcement a few-months-to-a-year later of Daniel to another woman? I genuinely don’t understand how women can live like this, even with manipulation and devaluing being in effect. I’d go insane if the only thing I did was child care and household chores. I know some women like those things, and some have little choice due to life circumstances. But still, the fact that Hannah wanted to dance at one point, and was good enough at it to get into a major school, suggests to me someone who would normally not be content just being a house wife, waiting on everyone’s every whim. Now I’m sad, we could be have been looking at an announcement of a great ballerina’s next performance, instead of THIS.
This story is giving off Elisabeth Elliot’s third marriage vibes. It’s a big sign of progress that these are now discussed openly, it will put a dent in the system. Coercive control is even a punishable offense in some countries, akin to other forms of abuse. I think if this Ballerina decided to leave her husband, regardless of the initial legal arrangements she signed, she would receive such a public outcry of support that the financial settlement would be plenty to provide for her and all her kids.
So he steals her dream of being a Juilliard-trained ballerina, and then has the nerve to call *his* enterprise “Ballerina Farm.”
Every day she has that much more salt rubbed into her wound as that name reminds her of what she’ll never have. 🤬
Jo R, you’re always so perceptive. That… nails it.
Everybody take a deep breath. My two daughters (30’s) read the Times article first. I sent them the link to Sheila’s post and they have a different take and have encouraged me to take a second look. We are not trad wives. We all have egalitarian marriages. For my daughters and their friends, a trad wife is someone who see’s her husband’s authority as supreme and God-given. The article’s author, Megan Agnew, may have come into the interview with some biases that influenced her writing. I’m just trying to be balanced and fair and usually agree with just about everything Sheila puts out. This is not a life I would choose. Well, maybe the farm but not 8 kids. Let’s take a walk through the article.
Paragraph 9: ‘She takes the baby from her husband. She will not leave Neeleman’s chest for the four hours we’re together.’ Sounds pretty normal for a mom with a nursing baby.
In the 18th paragraph, Agnew cites Nara Smith as an example of a trad wife, saying ‘[Smith] talks in a voice so soft she sounds as though she has been brainwashed by a cult, and is constantly pregnant and draining something fermented through muslin.’ If you examine Smith’s Instagram feed, you soon discover that her feed is satire, not real (naraaziza). The journalist missed a step there which may make one wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the article. Another popular trad wife satirist is Lex Delarosa (lex.delarosa).
In the paragraphs following the photo of Neeleman pouring milk, the couple discuss their “hierarchy” or lack thereof. Husband Daniel asserts that he is not the head of the household but that he and Hannah are ‘co-CEO’s.’ So, do we take their word for it or lean into the author’s skepticism?
‘She “absolutely” feels as though she has become politicised by other people. “We try so hard to be neutral and be ourselves and people will put a label on everything. This is just our normal life.”’ Hannah feels politicized by others. And aren’t we adding to that judgement?
Yes, their dating history seems a little hinky to me BUT we really don’t know, do we? We have it reported to us through the lens of someone else, someone who gets to choose which quotes are used and which aren’t. The author has her own interpretation of what constitutes a sacrifice. It looks like, on the outside, that all of Daniel’s “champagne wishes and caviar dreams” are coming true, but we really don’t know.
Agnew doesn’t seem to care much for husband Daniel as he seems to c one across as a “mansplainer” and gives a longer tour than she wanted. My husband does the same thing! He gets so excited by what he’s working on and creating that sometimes he loses sight of what others are feeling (bored, overwhelmed, etc.). So, is that Daniel’s issue or is he actively trying to keep the journalist from speaking with his wife as it is implied?
‘They have a cleaner but no childcare’: most of us, no cleaner, no childcare.
‘Neeleman does all the food shopping — kids in tow — and cooks from scratch’: I would fact-check that (all the shopping with kids). I did all my own shopping and still cook mostly from scratch. Many people do.
‘Daniel is a hands-on father, taking the kids out to the farm and doing all the laundry.’: My husband, too!
‘Still, Daniel says, Neeleman sometimes gets so ill from exhaustion that she can’t get out of bed for a week.’: THAT is worrying.
Home births?! No pain relief!? Horrors! Happens every day all over the world and in the Western world. Medications aren’t allowed in home births, at least in my state. No Pitocin, epidurals, etc. An epidural in the hospital without her husband there? Was she being sneaky (well, he knows now!) or might it have something to do with studies that show that a woman is more likely to have an unmedicated birth if she has a strong, secure support system to assist her. Her husband wasn’t there due to work? Happens all the time with some jobs, hunting season, traditions/culture. Who gets to say what is the only way to give birth? I gave birth naturally, my daughters both had unplanned cesareans. We all got babies.
‘I can’t, it seems, get an answer out of Neeleman without her being corrected, interrupted or answered for by either her husband or a child. Usually I am doing battle with steely Hollywood publicists; today I am up against an army of toddlers who all want their mum and a husband who thinks he knows better.’
Wow, sounds like a big judgy statement of pique that the interview isn’t going the way the reporter wanted it to. This reporter is childless and may not grasp the dynamics of a close family with children. Unless children are in another room or YOU leave the room, you will be interrupted. Even then, they can creep back in. Just pick up the phone to have a conversation (at least in the olden days) and children have all the questions that must be answered NOW. Could it be that kids and husbands answer for a mom or wife when she’s distracted by something else? Most kids go through a phase where they answer every question or have an opinion, even though it wasn’t solicited. I’m living with one of those now myself. And ‘a husband who thinks he knows better’ about what?
I don’t follow lifestyle blogs though I had seen Ballerina Farm’s feed in the past. As I do with the rest, I shrug and go on. Not the way I choose to live my life. It’s nobody’s business but my own. However, I do support the rights of others to put it all out there, curated for perfection or not. Their choice. Let’s be fair and not come at it with pre-conceived judgements based perhaps on our own triggers and trauma. Remember, we don’t KNOW anything except what they show us, or in the case of this article, what the journalist choses to report.
Yes, many people do their own childcare, cleaning, and grocery shopping with kids in tow.
Very few people have 8 kids though.
I did all of that. I had two.
And I did not try to compete in a beauty pageant 12 days after my youngest was born, travelling across the country with seven other kids in tow.
You really can’t compare what most people do to what she does.
She doesn’t take all the kids with her when she does beauty pageants. She travels with the new baby, a mothers helper, and usually her sister while Daniel stays home with the other children and flies in with them later for the actual night of judging.
As someone who has had multiple newspaper articles written about me in the course of my life, I have to say that not once, ever, has any reporter gotten the facts and details of the story correct. And that was with sympathetic reporters, which this woman clearly is not. So thank you for adding this perspective to the conversation.
It’s weird… I know a lot of very successful men who say that their careers are there to serve their families.
They take the 6 pm train home, eat dinner with the kids, do their share of the bedtime routine, and log back on from 9 pm to midnight.
They work at jobs they don’t like as much be use they have seniority to be flexible and make their kids’ baseball games.
They say that their high pressure gets to be a drag, but it’s all worth it when they see their daughter’s smile when she’s riding horses.
It’s not a gendered thing. Careers serve families, not the other way around.
But… if you’re a woman in a traditional community who says that, what everyone thinks you mean (and thinks you should mean) is that YOUR dreams and career must get thrown under the bus (not just properly oriented) to serve HIS dreams and career.
Put more simply:
Healthy model:
Family
Big goals and dreams
Careers
Unhealthy model:
His career
His dreams and big goals
Family
Her existence
Your lists are quite on point.
What did she want? To finish school, to delay marriage, to become a professional dancer.
What did he want? To get the airplane seat next to her, to get married right away, and to hide his real ambition of being a pig farmer until after he tied her up tightly in marriage.
Any “choices” she’s made since she met him have all been in service of him first, what he wants.
Her needs don’t matter a bit, until her body literally collapses for a week.
She’s an afterthought that’s simply a cog in his schemes.
Yeah, it is sad.
What I’m trying to drive at, badly: of women are told that their families are more important than their careers, then MEN should also be told the same thing.
If Hannah gives up Juilliard to get married and have babies, then he doesn’t get to drag her to Brazil for his job: her needs around not be an isolated newlywed should be more important than his career.
That doesn’t happen, because she’s supposed to subordinate her *self* to his *career.*
Yes! Women are told that motherhood is their highest calling, but men are rarely told that being a father is their most important job. Instead, they are usually told to be a good provider.
This blog post hints at a very, very serious accusation. On the surface, some of these things might *seem* to add up to an oppressive relationship between these two, but others see Ballerina Farm as having total agency in her choices. It really depends on the spin of the journalist, if there is a spin, as well as the audience’s interpretation of what was written. This is a potentially very hurtful accusation to make….what if the speculation that Daniel likes to see Hannah caged is incorrect? Imagine if they were to stumble across this blog and read that. I can’t imagine how hurt I would feel if I were in her shoes, assuming these things aren’t true.
Yes.
And what if (gasp) Hannah’s capacity for work and “doing it all” is so high BECAUSE she has a great partner and support system in her husband and her immediate and extended family? It’s what we all dream of… Hard work feels easier when you have an equal partner. It’s an assumption to say it’s not this way, and we really only have Hannah’s word and the journalists word we’re going off of in the end.
The egg apron video doesn’t lie, though. Only some can see what he’s doing there, though. It’s very subtle. Covert abuse. He asks where it is from (Ukraine). Why? The gift is not even wrapped. Once she opens it and fakes happiness but doesn’t say “thank you”, he subtly forces her by saying “you’re welcome”, which is also a form of subtle criticism. When she says “egg apron” he says “now you can collect eggs” – she already does that, but he’s reminding her she belongs in the kitchen. She fakely says “it’s cute” and he said “it’s the best”. Really? Is that the best? I could go on and on.
Covert abuse? How are we so easily making this ENORMOUS accusation from a tik tok video? It might have been an inside joke between them that would prompt him to playfully say “thank you” to elicit a “you’re welcome.” My own husband and I have had the same such interactions at times, and it’s playful. Shame on us for making such huge, damning accusations with so little information. And for how the article belabors the point that she really wanted tickets— her father in law owns Jet Blue. I’m sure they can get tickets whenever they want, and it’s not a big deal. Additionally, the couple has posted videos of them explaining their dating history and how SHE pursued him at one point during the process which led up to the “coincidental” booking of the same flight. There is simply no way in which we can start making abuse accusations or even speculating that Daniel is a sadistic man who likes seeing his wife in a “gilded cage.” This has the potential to do so much harm to this family. God will hold us accountable for every careless word we speak and write.
In some respects, I get what Allison is saying. Everybody is different, not everybody in the same situation feels the same way, traditional roles in marriage aren’t always wrong, etc.
However…
1. Hide real ambition/personality until after the fact of marriage
2. Not letting her talk, not wanting her voice to be heard unfiltered.
these two items are pretty big red flags for this specific case.
I get what you’re saying but again a lot of assumptions are being made. This whole discussion was prompted by an article written by a reporter who appears to have some assumptions of her own about this family. I didn’t read anything that said the husband had “hidden real ambition/personality until after the fact of marriage.” As a young woman brought up in the Mormon faith, she probably knew the expectations of a husband, family, and her church for life after marriage and children.
The original article states that “Daniel got a job as the director of his father’s security company, moving their young family to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, where before long she had three kids under four. At first she was still dancing professionally. The family eventually settled in Utah.” It’s not written with great clarity but the implication is that Hannah was dancing professionally while she had her first 4 children.
As I said in my original post, she may not have been able to speak due to family chaos. Based on the author’s report, we don’t know. This is the same author who thought a trad wife satirist was the real thing.
Here’s a link to a 2021 article that seems more balanced. https://www.utahfarmbureau.org/Article/Pageants-Plies-and-Pork-Tales-of-Connection-on-the-Ballerina-Farm
All I want is for us to be wise consumers of information and make educated, informed commentary. If the assumptions about Daniel and their marriage are not true or accurate, how much damage are we doing to their reputation, their livelihood, etc.? We just don’t know because of potentially biased reporting and information from one source.
The author of this article is the editor of the Utah Farm Bureau- one cannot consider an unbiased observer either! As a farmer and, potentially, Mormon (many people in Utah are,) he simply has an opposite bias to the author of the Times article.
I think this second article is interesting. Same author, same topic, different tone.
https://www.thetimes.com/world/us-world/article/my-day-with-the-trad-wife-queen-and-what-i-really-thought-of-her-qmbmmhkp8
I don’t usually comment on the internet but this story hit a nerve. I don’t follow this influencer but I do have experience with the religion that she is in. My brother married a woman from a large Mormon family. She convinced him that her family wasn’t really involved in the religion, but it wasn’t true. When he met her, she already had a son that she gave birth to at 16 years old. The father {not Mormon) was doing drugs and in trouble a lot with the law so she lived at home with her parents. I think she met my brother when she was about 25. He is very successful financially. He worked very hard his whole life. She moved into his house and began making demands. I thought it sounded weird but we don’t live close by so I didn’t really get to know her. They got married about a year later. My other brother said that the wedding would be a boring Mormon wedding but it was actually crazy! One of her aunts who was probably in her 50’s was pretending to be a stripper on a pole at the bar. Another aunt who had giant breast implants wore a dress where you could see most of her breasts. I couldn’t believe these were Mormons! But they were all blonde and they looked a lot like Hannah. I played violin for the wedding as I am a violinist by trade and have been playing professionally since my teen years. She never acknowledged it. I had to drag my kids and my violin across the country and up a mountain and she never said thank you!
My sister in law came to visit and my mom took her son and my kids for a bit so we could hang out. She said some nasty things to me purposefully trying to put me down. I was pretty surprised by it. It was straight out of mean girls. I tried to let it go but I started to feel really uneasy around her. She basically said out of the blue that her mom had more children than me and had accomplished much more than me. I was like, oh ok? Then she just had this little evil smile on her face and stared at her phone. I think she was trying to get a reaction from me. She spends money like water so my brother has to work so hard to keep the money coming in. She’s very obsessed with appearances. Everything is about hair, makeup, clothes and photos.
They had a baby together and I was so excited for my brother because I knew he would be a good dad. As soon as the baby was born, she started talking about having as many more kids as soon as possible. I was thinking it wasn’t such a great idea because she didn’t even seem to take care of her son that she already had. He was passed around to his dad, her mom, my brother etc. My brother said he just wanted one child but she insisted on having more. She had to do fertility treatments on the second one. After the second one, she seemed to really be overwhelmed. The kids started having a lot of behavior problems. I can tell my brother is worried. He seems miserable and stressed out.
Another thing is that she is always trying to take vacations to get away from her kids.
They go to Hawaii a lot, as a family, but she takes girls trips with other moms to Mexico and she recently went to Thailand for two weeks leaving the young girls with my brother. She continues to say rude things to me when others are out of earshot. The last straw was when she said something nasty about my daughter. I used to be so close with my brother but now I keep my distance. The situation makes me so sad.
You’re probably wondering what this has to do with the ballerina farm. I question whether people are misunderstanding the Hannah Neeleman situation. It is being asserted that she was tricked into getting married and having kids instead of living out her dreams. But she did a beauty pageant and said that the most amazing part of her life has been giving birth to all of her children. Was she lying? Is this man forcing her to have all of these children and say these things? Because many of these Mormon women aspire to have as many kids as possible. She too comes from a large Mormon family, Beauty pageants are very superficial and take a lot of money and time. She did these before she met her husband. She does them now too. It must take time away from family life I would assume. (Not that I have a problem with it) She is very pretty and talented! If the husband was so controlling and horrible though, would he really want her to do these pageants? And who watches all the kids while they go to that? She was an adult when they started dating and he is the same age as she is. If she wanted to stay in New York and keep dancing, it would have been easy to say I’m not ready to date or settle down. She chose to be with him. I met my husband in college but I finished my degree before we got married. If he had said we need to get married immediately, I would have said no. Even if she was dazzled by his money, it was still her choice to be with him. I’m not convinced that this woman is as innocent as she seems. Judging by the behavior of some of the other LDS women I have met, (not just my sister in law) they can be very manipulative and conniving. Most of what my sister in law says is half truths, lying by omission or straight up BS. She also puts on a sweet innocent act a lot of times. She said that she never got in trouble for anything because she was too cute. Believe me, I hope that Hannah is not in some sort of slavery/mind control situation. That would be awful. And I know it happens! Especially in certain religions. But I think people need to know that female predators also exist and that social media is nothing like what it appears to be.
Her story just makes me want to weep. He displayed classic narcissist patterns — love bomb, rush-rush, don’t take no for an answer — just generally overwhelming the object of his “affection.” And she, having been raised in an extremely conservative home, has no idea that she has a voice and a right to use it to say NO. And now she is trapped. The only good thing is, when she finally decides to decide for herself, she is now entitled to 50% of his fortune, and will have no trouble supporting herself and her children. I hope she can find a *really* good lawyer.
YES!!!!
The way you’ve covered this story will make me more wary of other stories you give coverage to. More research should’ve been done. Maybe follow the account for a week or two before writing about it? I’ve followed Hannah for years. I hate the trad wife trend and if you follow Hannah for even a week you’d realize she isn’t anything the interviewer claimed. Also the interviewer actually printed what looks like a retraction article. This should be noted. Hannah is gorgeous, a business owner, pageant queen, super mom, wife …. I could go on. She was targeted by a petty journalist.
One thing I always loved about Sheila was the research she put into her podcasts, books and articles. This article is woefully lacking in the research department. Do better
Agree, Sheila’s reaction here felt very precipitous and poorly researched. Hannah herself responded to the article by saying it was horribly biased and that she felt her trust had been violated. I was sorry Sheila didn’t respond to that. I feel like the people trying to advocate for Hannah are, in fact also taking away her voice and autonomy. Pot/kettle situation, to an extent.
Sheila’s point of the possible fetishization of “caging” a woman who did have other options immediately made me think of Shannon Harris and her book The Woman They Wanted about her marriage to Joshua Harris (of I Kissed Dating Goodbye fame/infamy). Shannon didn’t grow up in church and wasn’t a virgin. It was curious to me why CJ Mahaney (Josh’s mentor and co-founder of Sovereign Grace church) really pushed for them to be together when there were DROVES of homeschooled girls who would have LOVED to be Mrs. Joshua Harris. It feels like the same thing – if he could convince someone who had experiences outside the Church bubble to totally buy into the complementarian theology then it would be a bigger “win” than with someone who grew up in that and didn’t know anything else. Very astute point that explains a LOT of situations like this.
That’s an interesting point!
It turned out that the reporter misrepresented the interview. Much of the tapes have been exposed and the reporter represented her own biased version, and ignored many things that were said. The husband said she could continue to dance, but she chose to raise a family instead. So much more to the story than what was represented.
I find it hard to comment on the “real life” behind people who make their living by “acting” on social media. They know that they make money by promoting a certain “brand” and are thus significantly financially incentivized to keep pushing the type of content that draws an audience. Just because people are filming themselves doesn’t mean they aren’t acting, editing, and directing what the audience sees.
Likewise, it’s hard to find good-quality, truly independent journalism that acknowledges its own biases, thoroughly researches its subjects, and can portray them in an even-handed manner.
For those reasons, I have no clue what the “truth” is behind this family, nor do I care to speculate.
However, with many Mormons in my circle of close friends, I can speak to some of the Mormon culture.
There is a TON of pressure to live a traditional lifestyle in which the couple marries young (out of high school or in college; typically upon returning from one’s “mission” around age 22); to become parents young; and to have large families. The man is under tremendous pressure to be the sole breadwinner – which means “launching” quickly into a high-paying, stable job with good benefits – to support such a big family so young. While the woman is expected to excel at homemaking, it is common for families that can afford it to hire help with childcare, cleaning, cooking, etc; and it is VERY common for the older siblings/cousins to help raise the younger ones; for grandparents to be very involved raising/looking after grandchildren; for unwed aunts/sisters to pitch in fulltime with household tasks; etc. The man is also expected to be an involved father as much as work and church life allow. It is a very family-centered culture that works fairly well for people who are family-oriented. For those who don’t want to help raise kids (whether or not they’re yours) or who don’t want to be partnered (anywhere you go, you only see couples doing things together; it’s nearly unheard-of for anyone above 22 to do activities without their spouse or close family), it can be almost impossible to carve out an accepted space.
A lot has been said and written about the pressure this culture places on women, which it absolutely does. I will add that it also places tremendous pressure on men. For example, one Mormon friend was a talented jazz trumpeter in college on a full music scholarship, who played with bands and toured. But because he was under a ton of pressure to “launch quickly” to be able to support a wife and children, he abandoned that in college to pursue a reliable, high-paying government job with good benefits. He married and had four children by his mid-20s. Not long after he married, with their first baby on the way, he found out he had cancer. His young wife very nearly left him because she worried he would not be able to support them. He luckily survived treatment, but it was a lot of extra stress to know that not only his life was on the line, but his whole family and role in the society.
A more egalitarian culture is less stressful for all genders.
==>Willow on August 3, 2024 at 12:48 am
I find it hard to comment on the “real life” behind people who make their living by “acting” on social media. They know that they make money by promoting a certain “brand” and are thus significantly financially incentivized to keep pushing the type of content that draws an audience. Just because people are filming themselves doesn’t mean they aren’t acting, editing, and directing what the audience sees.
===
I agree. We have to keep in mind that we are talking about the “attention economy.” It doesn’t matter if the attention is positive, negative, a good influence, a bad influence, true, false or somewhere in between- the thing that matters is views and shares and commentary. And honestly, posts that plant the seeds of controversy or conflict get the most attention, so maybe it’s a savvy move to post a video of a wife being disappointed with her birthday present rather than being pleased.
I think I am more bothered by parents using their children’s childhood as material for attention or even self enrichment, whether that is through reality TV or social media channels. I prefer to avoid this type of content altogether.
Great article, and it raises questions (which means we are willing to look critically at relationships that have warning flags – and that’s a win).
Red flags:
– Pushing for a wedding instead of letting her finish her education, especially when she wanted to do so.
– The timeline from dating to wedding to baby is a classic move of someone who wants to “entrap” a partner. Many abusers use pregnancy to destabilize their partner’s finances and ability to leave.
– Giving up one dream for another – There are successful ballerinas who have had careers after pregnancy. It could have been ballerina then farm, especially before the kids (or one kid) was able to be homeschooled. She had a clear dream for herself, and his influences changed it completely. That can happen organically, but it is still a red flag.
The important thing (in my mind) that this article does, is to help us spot markers of abusive relationships. Is she in an abusive situation? We do not know, but it helps to shine a light on those warning signs for the followers of her social media. She might be okay, but someone hoping for the same kind of life might find themselves in something dangerous and damaging. This is a public account, therefore, open to public discourse. By pointing out warning signs of abuse, many others might be spared, whether this relationship is toxic or not.
I read some of the comments above and just wanted to add something I’ve learned from listening to Jo Piazza’s podcast about influencers….Ballerina Farm at this point is a brand. They have 18 million followers on TikTok and instagram combined. So while we may feel for Hannah and be unsure about her situation, whatever they are putting out is highly controlled PR designed to earn them more money. And to do all that PR they need a lot of behind the scenes help (childcare, cleaning, etc) which they may or may not admit to. So the challenge is that 18 million people are being influenced by this beautiful vision of trad wife life that’s based on a lot of money and doesn’t show the reality of how it feels to be the woman in the situation. What effect does that have on young women and how they make choices about their futures?
I’ve only just heard of Ballerina Farm, really. I’ve read The Times article about it and this one; and yes, it’s very possible that there may be controlling behavior happening on Daniel’s part. However, that may not be the case. Brett Cooper has done a video about The Times article as well, and puts forth the possibility that the author of the article may have a feministic bias against the trad wife lifestyle and that the bias is coming through very strongly in the article. Whether or not that’s true is up for debate, but it’s a thought.
If anyone is interested, here is the YouTube link for the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awizd9G6Bpw
One note: For those of us who have come out of controlling family situations (me included), our senses have become hyper-tuned to anything that may look like a similar situation, and it can be very easy to jump to conclusions. (We kind of had to have these super senses just to survive, right?) But once we get out and into a safe place and start to heal and have the time and internal peace to process things, then we’re better able to analyze what’s actually going on, even with what we hear about other people’s situations.
Watch her open that package and count the number of knife safety mistakes she makes. Wrong knife, cutting towards herself, paying no attention to how the box is sealed….I might be reading a little too much into this, but I really don’t think her heart is into that lifestyle, because if it were, she find a paring knife, find the sealing tape and cut away from herself, etc..
Robert, you’d be surprised how many influencers include details like that on purpose to get comments. To me, that whole video was a comment grab, right down to the plane ticket comments, and the contents of the actual gift.
I read Sheila’s blog and the two Sunday Times articles about the Ballerina Farm.
Let’s take a step back and review the facts:
1. both Daniel and Hannah had big dreams.
2. both were in their early 20s when they married.
3. both may not have matured enough before they jumped into marriage or began raising a family.
It could be a lack of maturity from the onset that causes the big ego, and even the seemingly powerless ability to speak up. Normal human nature like this can be 100% mitigated through counseling and getting help to enhance the relationship with each person and within the marriage.
Yes, there are red flags — in much of their story — and it is their story. And it could be anyone else’s story too.
I honestly thought that Times article was one of the worst pieces of journalism I’d read in a long while. Obviously I don’t know what’s going on in their marriage behind closed doors, but I’d like to think no one would read that article and assume it was in any way an honest portrayal. The writer went in there with a completely closed mind, and it showed. I think it was way too soon for you to comment on this story, Sheila.