What Do Complementarianism and Coercive Control Have in Common?

by | Aug 19, 2024 | Abuse, Theology of Marriage and Sex | 43 comments

Complementarianism and Coercive Control

Does abuse show up more in complementarian circles?

If you missed episode 246 of the Bare Marriage podcast, you missed out on a great one (and I highly recommend going back to listen when you have a chance!). I had the privilege of sitting down with Bethany Jantzi.

Bethany reached out to me a few months ago to share with me about the dissertation she had recently completed on how The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace (a commonly used resource in many complementarian circles) actually has similar advice and impact as coercive control. I found the argument fascinating, and I’d like to explain it more fully today. 

What is Coercive Control?

There are many different explanations of coercive control, but each of them can be narrowed down to this:

Definition of Coercive Control

Coercive control is an act or a pattern of acts of assault, threats, humiliation and intimidation or other abuse that is used to harm, punish, or frighten their victim.

Here’s what’s key: violence can often be part of the coercion toolbox, but due to the nature of coercion it isn’t always necessary because the mere threat of violence can be just as effective. And that’s why people often don’t recognize these patterns as abuse. 

Okay, so that’s the issue with coercive control. Now let’s ask:

What Is Complementarianism?

There are two different belief systems, within evangelicalism, about how we’re supposed to live in marriage.

The Two Models of Evangelical Marriages

  1. Egalitarian or mutual submission: This is a belief system that says that both partners are to submit to one another while they follow after God together– nobody has authority over the other. God is our ultimate authority, and we submit to God by praying together and talking to each other to make decisions as a team.
  2. Complementarianism: Complementarianism says that the husband follows and submits to God, while the wife ultimately follows and submits to her husband. The husband is the one who makes decisions and his wife is expected to support his choices. While the husband can take his wife’s thoughts and preferences into account while making decisions (and in many complementarian communities highly encouraged men to do this), God has made him responsible for the family and for the wife, and he gets to make the final decisions and the final call.

Immediately, we see the power imbalance that creates the dynamics of authority and power as features of marriage within the complementarian hierarchy. And when there are unequal power dynamics, coercive control often shows up.

If coercive control is inherently abusive, and complementarianism actually mimics some of the elements of coercive control, then complementarianism is going to have an abuse problem.

Where Is The Evidence That Links Coercion To Complementarianism?

Several studies have shown higher rates of abuse in complementarian marriages (such as this study by the conservative think tank IFS, which showed that complementarian Christian husbands reported a 27% abuse rate, while egalitarian ones only reported a 17% rate).

Rates of domestic violence in complementarian marriages

I talked more about this study, and the claim that abuse is lower in evangelical circles, in this op ed for Baptist News about Josh Howerton’s false claims.

It can be difficult to isolate the effects of complementarianism on abuse rates, though, because most people who say they believe complementarianism don’t act it out. Also, people in these kinds of abusive marriages often do not have the language to describe what it is that they are experiencing, even if they do feel like something is wrong. 

If you’re a woman who has been taught that the role of a good wife is to submit and obey, even when your husband is actively abusing you and your children, you may not have the proper framework to fully understand what is happening or what you should do.

Perhaps you are choosing to follow John Piper’s advice and endure abuse for a season so that your husband may be led to repentance. But when is that season supposed to end.

Perhaps you have been told that you are the problem, and that you must work on praying and trusting God more, as Power of A Praying Wife teaches.

Perhaps, like in The Excellent Wife by Martha Peace, women are taught that it is a sin to expect kindness from one’s husband and that it is a privilege to be “suffering for righteousness sake.”

With teachings like these so deeply ingrained in women living with abusive husbands, of course it wouldn’t be reported as abuse. They have been groomed to equate abusive behaviour with Godly leadership and have not been empowered to recognize that they deserve kindness and safety in their homes.

Are people primed for coercive control within complementarianism?

When we have a culture that is set up based on hierarchy within marriage, with women having less agency to make choices for themselves–and we teach couples that this is God’s will for marriage– we have baptized problematic relationship dynamics in spiritual language. 

Once we normalize relationship dynamics like this, the harder it will be for everyone to spot the warning signs of coercive control and abuse.

Picture yourself as a woman at a women’s Bible study. You observe a woman who is talking about how wonderful it is to submit to her husband and how great she feels when she embraces that role in her marriage. That sounds great, right?

But she is actually married to a guy who is amazing, and he never makes the final decisions. Instead, they actually function as equals, but they use this language of submission and hierarchy.

And then someone else in that same Bible study is in a relationship where the husband is domineering and very controlling. But because other people are mirroring this language, she figures, “well, what I’m experiencing is normal.” 

Now you have women being trapped in abusive relationships within their faith community because the language being used to discuss what is normal, healthy, and part of God’s will has just been weaponized against vulnerable women who have no idea that their husbands are abusive.

What Are Elements of Coercion Noticeable Within The System of Complementarianism?

To understand elements of control, let’s turn to the BITE model that was first created by Steve Hassan to describe the brainwashing and grooming methods used by cults and high control religious groups.

The Four Elements of Hassan’s BITE Model

B: Behavior is Prescribed

I: Information is Limited

T: Thoughts are Controlled

E: Emotions are Limited

Behaviour: When women are taught to alter their behaviour to please their husbands, avoid punishment, or keep their husbands from straying we can call this behavioural control.

Information: We can observe information control in the way that women are often taught that certain forms of information or therapy are wrong. Relying on prayer, bible study, and pastoral counselling in cases of abuse or mental illness is often at odds with licensed therapy and medication.

Thought: Thought control is done through an insidious and constant form of grooming that teaches women the way that they are supposed to think. We can see this with thought-stopping phrases like “God knows best”. Even if abuse or harm happens in your marriage, it’s not something you can change or question because God knows best, allowed it to happen for a reason, and ordained that your husband is your authority.

Emotion: emotional control, as often seen in fundamentalism, is seen in how women are often taught that they’re only allowed to feel certain things. Emotions are often labelled as sins. In The Excellent Wife, Martha Peace often declares that it is sinful to feel hurt by your husband’s words or behaviour. It is sin if you feel lonely. It is a sin if you desire kindness from your husband. It is a sin to want anything better for yourself.

Let’s give an example of this. Here’s Martha Peace again, the author of The Excellent Wife, talking about how she learned about submission in marriage:

When I was a baby Christian at age thirty-three, I read the Bible for the first time. I was thrilled and astonished at what I learned. I loved the Lord and I desired more than anything to please Him and stop sinning against Him. There was one nagging question, though, in the back of my mind. Why did God let bad things happen? That question was settled for me when I got to Romans 9. Throughout that chapter, I was struck with statements like: “For He says to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.’” But the one that really made things come together for me was “But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, ‘Why have you made me like this?’” (Romans 9:15,20)

Well, I stopped reading and thought about what I had read. I concluded that, after all, this is God’s creation and we are His creatures to glorify Him in all kinds of ways that He determines. I doubt that I even knew the word sovereignty back then, but today I would declare that He is the Sovereign High King of Heaven. Ruling over us is His prerogative whether we like it or not. Fortunately, He is good, kind, merciful, and holy. He is the One who determines how best we can glorify Him.

So, I kept reading. Eventually I came to Ephesians chapter five. Oh my! I was startled to discover that as a wife, I was to be submissive to my husband. Having been a very independent person all of my life and having been a feminist, I was floored. The amazing thing, though, was in spite of my former beliefs, I had a new heart and longed to please God no matter what that meant. Once I got over the shock, I prayed and asked God to make me that kind of wife. In fact, I began to have joy knowing I was pleasing God and my husband, Sanford.

Martha Peace

Soap Bubbles Submission

So she’s saying:

  1. She starts reading her Bible, and the message she takes is that God does things that don’t make sense to us (he’ll have mercy on whom he has mercy). (You don’t need to see God this way, by the way!)
  2. She then reads that we’re not allowed to question God (again, that passage was meant for another purpose, and can’t be ripped out of context of other passages about fighting oppression)
  3. She decides that God is ruling how He likes and we aren’t supposed to understand
  4. God also said that she was to submit.

Do you see how this becomes a method of thought control? You’re not allowed to question your husband, because you’re not allowed to question submission, because you’re not allowed to question God.

We need to get serious about the risks of theology

Here’s something Bethany Jantzi wrote in her thesis:

Complementarian theology may be a risk factor for coercive control because women within these systems are uniquely vulnerable to abuse and control with the justification that the mandate of headship and submission is God ordained. It is not just their abuser they must extricate themselves from but this God and their broader faith community.

Bethany Jantzi

If coercive control is based in setting up a system where a woman (in this case) feels her agency is taken away from her through intimidation or threats, so that she cannot question her husband–

AND if that same dynamic is often created by complementarianism (even if it’s not explicitly taught, and even if most who believe it don’t practice it)–

Then we have to ask if this theology is dangerous.

I think it is. And if complementarians truly think that their system of authority in marriage is the healthiest, it is incumbent on them to fix it, rather than calling out those of us who believe in mutuality as not believing the Bible. If they are so sure that their system is correct, then they should be the loudest at decrying abuse. And yet they are not.

That should tell us something.

What grieves me most is how Jesus is being caught up in this.

So many people (like Martha Peace) are teaching women that Jesus wants them to suffer. Then Jesus, who should be our biggest comfort when we are oppressed, becomes our oppressor.  They steal Jesus from abused women.

Even if there isn’t abuse, they still make Jesus into a God who doesn’t actually want to hear women’s voices. Women are to submit under men, so our thoughts, opinions, and feelings aren’t as important. We’re diminished before God. And that should never be.

Let’s reclaim Jesus for women, and let’s reclaim health. And if complementarians want to challenge me on this, I’d suggest they clean up the mess in their own camp first.

What do you think? Is abuse and coercive control linked to complementarianism? Let’s talk in the comments!

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Sheila Wray Gregoire

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Sheila Wray Gregoire

Author at Bare Marriage

Sheila is determined to help Christians find biblical, healthy, evidence-based help for their marriages. And in doing so, she's turning the evangelical world on its head, challenging many of the toxic teachings, especially in her newest book The Great Sex Rescue. She’s an award-winning author of 8 books and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila works with her husband Keith and daughter Rebecca to create podcasts and courses to help couples find true intimacy. Plus she knits. All the time. ENTJ, straight 8

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43 Comments

  1. Phil

    Just wow. I really feel bad for Martha Peace – Listen I hate her message. It is really bad! However, it is just so sad sad sad that she actually read the bible and didn’t include Jesus in her translation. Seriously? Really sad. I wish I knew a way to give people the Jesus method of interpretation of the bible. It is time for me to go public here: This is how having been trying to sgive people hope. I dont get many comments and thats fine because honestly I dont have time to manage it. However a couple a day would be great. Anyway – I know I haven’t been around here as much as I used to be but I am still reading and hoping for ALL of you. I HOPE for you.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Thanks, Phil! I feel sorry for her too. She must be a very sad woman.

      Reply
  2. Laura

    I believe abuse and control are definitely linked to complementarianism. I experienced that in my first marriage. My ex believed, because that’s what the plain English reading of the Bible said, that he (the husband) was to be in charge. I needed to account for my every whereabout, but he never had to. I needed to give him sex on demand, but if I initiated sex (which he suggested I should do more of), he withheld. If he was in a bad mood or something went wrong at work, I was to blame even though I had nothing to do with his behavior at work. He would tell me that I was never allowed to say no to him. When it came to moving into a condo that his parents bought and we rented from them, he did not ask for my opinion and said, “Because I’m the husband, I get the final say on where we live.” It did not help that our assigned reading in our premarital class was “His Needs, Her Needs” by Willard F. Harley. Even though he never read the book because he was not much of a reader, he used what he heard in class against me. For example, Harley’s claims that sex was one of the top five needs of a man was often used against me if I said no to sex. My ex would say, “See sex is one of my top 5 needs.”

    Therefore, I cannot get behind comp theology as I have seen how it harms. I’ve seen it in others who act it out. Thankfully, my new husband believes in mutuality.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I’m just so happy that you found a good guy, Laura! Been so exciting to watch your journey here in the comments section over the years! I hope we meet in real life one day.

      Reply
      • Laura

        That would be awesome to meet you in real life, Sheila!

        Reply
  3. Jo R

    “If they are so sure that their system is correct, then they should be the loudest at decrying abuse.”

    What they do instead is say that “people are implementing it wrong,” and by “people,” they mean “women.”

    Well, then how about some VERY detailed instructions on how to implement the system correctly? And, oh, by the way, bear in mind that the typical instructions that she has to give more, sacrifice more, have sex more (and that sex being merely PIV), be quieter, and make herself smaller ARE NOT WORKING. If those techniques worked, we wouldn’t be in this mess, would we?

    Reply
  4. Exwifofasexaddict

    Complementarianism IS abuse and control. That’s it’s whole thing. When you say People X have to submit to People Y, you are abusing and controlling. Period. Even if you’re the nicest abuser ever and talk to your victim about how they want to do things. It’s still abuse.

    Reply
    • Jane Eyre

      This exactly. Adults don’t need to be micromanaged, submissive, or controlled. It’s just wrong to demand that of another human, and it’s part of the sinfulness of the human race (it’s a form of slavery).

      Reply
  5. Nathan

    Slightly off topic nitpick. I always believed that complementarianism wasn’t exactly male patriarchy, but something else. I always thought it was the idea then men and women “complement” each other in that God has designed us to do different things. The husband works outside the home, provides for the family, takes out the trash, and fixes things around the house. The wife stays home, raises the kids, cooks, cleans, etc. It may or may not be a Patriarchy, but they key is that this is how God designed us, this is what God wants, and any man who tries to do “women’s work” or any woman who tries to “man’s work” is sinning against the church, the bible and God.

    Is that complementarianism? Or is it something else entirely?

    Disclaimer: I don’t agree with either definition of this, even when the situation I outlined above has an equal marriage (in that case, the husband and wife have biblically pre-defined roles, but each have equal authority and worth in the marriage). That’s not “as bad”, but still not a good idea.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      That’s certainly a big part of it, but they don’t really find support for this in Scripture at all. It’s just kind of an old gender roles idea.

      Reply
    • Phil

      Nathan – I have heard that definition long before I heard the truth here. Thats what I thought it was also. What I think that is, is people that dont understand what they believe and or an attempt to deliver the message in a “softer way”. What you are describing is the jello vrs gelatin debate. In the end jello is not really jello. It’s gelatin.

      Reply
    • Nathan

      I guess that makes sense. Neither one makes sense, as you say. I work, for example, but Mrs. Nathan is better than I am at fixing things around the house.

      Reply
      • Phil

        Go Mrs Nathan! 🛠️

        Reply
    • Nessie

      Nathan, what you described as “complementary” has been my understanding. Kind of like complementary colors on a color wheel from grade school (also called contrasting colors, at least as I was taught). Both were opposite, e.g. yellow and purple. Adding in the submission bit meant that if there was a task on the fence of male vs. female (say, planting flowers), he got first “dibs” if he wanted it.

      A bit of a gray area of complementary vs. patriarchal was the “one directs, the other submits,” as they were considered “complementary.”

      I like power tools, outside work, etc., and in those “complementarian” spaces I often was viewed as almost unnatural for preferring those. I was often questioned why I did those things since I had a husband, lol.

      Reply
    • CMT

      “Complementarian” has such “that word doesn’t mean what you think it means” vibes, doesn’t it? I mean nobody is saying spouses shouldn’t complement one another, right?

      Whether or not comp is the same as patriarchy depends on who you ask. I think plenty of comps would say it’s not, but others (Denny Burk, Kevin DeYoung come to mind), would say it *is* patriarchy, done right. It’s godly patriarchy, not the bad oppressive worldly kind. At least they’re sort of honest, I guess?

      Reply
      • Lisa Johns

        “not the bad, oppressive, worldly kind” made me lol!

        Reply
  6. Nessie

    Ms. Jantzi said something in the podcast similar to this thesis quote: ” It is not just their abuser they must extricate themselves from but this God and their broader faith community.”

    Yes. I can understand not having trust in a person, a pastor, a congregation, a denomination, etc. because of broken trust. But when these ways are taught, they mean broken trust between women and God in many cases. *That* has been the hardest part for me- I was taught that God was love. I also learned “love” meant I was to be pushed down to nothingness all for the sake of “glorifying God,” and that just didn’t square up with what the Bible explicitly says love is. What they taught made it look like God was inconsistent, which would make Him a liar, which would void the whole Bible.

    As Sheila said, “Then Jesus, who should be our biggest comfort when we are oppressed, becomes our oppressor. They steal Jesus from abused women.”

    I would say they also obliterate hope for women because, if God/Jesus is our hope in times of trouble, yet He desired/designed that trouble, then hope simply cannot exist. If “hope deferred makes a heart sick,” then I would say hope being non-existent except as our tormentor utterly destroys us.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Yes, absolutely it destroys hope. That’s what Tia talked about too. I think this is so evil, and really represents the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

      Reply
      • Nessie

        My apologies if I plagiarized her in any way. I rarely get to listen to podcasts with full attention, so I never know what ideas may have planted in my head from what I heard while “multi-tasking.” However, it begs repeating just how badly these ideas/actions destroy hope until more people actually hear and understand it.

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          Oh, no, I didn’t mean that you plagiarized her! Just that your observations are totally right on–Tia experienced that too!

          Reply
    • Phil

      Thats deep thinking about hope. Thank you for this.

      Reply
  7. Nethwen

    When I first heard the BITE description, my immediate thought was, “That’s what parenting is.” Now, I’ve learned a lot about parenting options and I would not raise children like this, but the instinctual reaction is still there. And that got me wondering, even though it’s true that a parent should have some authority over their child, if their parenting techniques include teaching which emotions are acceptable (not expressions of emotion, but the emotion itself) or dismissing or not allowing expression of thoughts that don’t agree with the parent, then is the child, boy or girl, more likely to marry someone who uses this type of control? Are they more likely to end up in a religious community that uses this type of control?

    I don’t want to make parents feel guilty or condemn them. Parenting is hard and I know it is possible for someone to desperately want to avoid creating an abusive family life and still be misled by parenting advice that functions like BITE. And I have to wonder if this type of childhood is the start of a lifelong battle to believe that you matter as yourself.

    Reply
    • Lisa Johns

      Both my family of origin and the family I mothered functioned according to the BITE model, the first, because it made my parents feel more secure if they were in total control, the second, because I became a “born-again” Christian and was completely Gothardized by the age of 21 and I thought that’s what I had to do to make the perfect family. Needless to say, ALL of our relationships are fraught! It breaks my heart that this humanistic-in-the-WORST-sense philosophy hijacked everything I held dear over the years.

      Reply
  8. Nathan

    Maybe, maybe, maybe, if you “creatively interpret” certain bible verses, take them out of context, use a bad translation, and ignore other verses, you MIGHT be able to get to a place that says the husband is in charge of the marriage and men are in charge of the church. I don’t agree with it, but I can see how somebody could get there if they want to twist the bible enough.

    However, I see no way at all (well, no rational, intelligent way) to get to a place where women have no value or worth at all, exist only to serve and glorify their husbands, must make themselves as small and as quiet as possible, where it’s their fault when men fall, where their thoughts, wants, needs and feelings mean nothing, and where it’s sinful if they want their husband to stop abusing them.

    That level of patriarchy is so outrageous it’s amazing that people can think it, write it, and proclaim it. But, here we are.

    Reply
    • Nessie

      “That level of patriarchy is so outrageous it’s amazing that people can think it, write it, and proclaim it.”

      I didn’t grow up in it, but I was around some very insincere christians including an evil parent, so the comp. types really seemed sincere and “godly” by comparison and I was sold on it. And there were truly some good people at that church (though I’d argue they were the ones that proclaimed comp yet acted egal in most areas.) But the deeper I got in it and the more advice I got from the women, the worse things got until I reached a breaking point and had to get out.

      Reply
  9. Nathan

    >> I also learned “love” meant I was to be pushed down to nothingness all for the sake of “glorifying God,

    What these churches are really telling women is that they should be pushed down to nothingness for the sake of glorifying their husbands (or maybe other men in the family) and to make the church look good

    Reply
    • Nessie

      True. There was a lot of “perception” talk in my former circle.

      Reply
  10. Audrey

    This is such a near and dear topic for me (I frequently read the blog but I haven’t commented yet. Yay social anxiety!). The church I grew up in is pastored by very dear friends who have both helped me develop my faith and theological critical thinking skills. I would describe them (and the position of my specific e-free church) as “soft complementarian,” meaning that they believe in male headship in marriage and church structure, but practically allow women to do anything but preach. They offer a summer college internship, which I participated in when I was 19. One of our assignments was to pick a difficult social topic and come up with a biblically accurate, gospel perspective on that topic and give a ten-minute presentation. I chose the role of women in the church and in marriage as my topic, and I ended up writing a 36-page research paper discussing my findings. Going into the project, I really did not have an opinion about the issue from a biblical perspective; I just knew that what I had witnessed in the church regarding the way women were treated and girls were protected made me pretty uncomfortable.

    I found the work of Phillip Payne, Marg Mowzcko, the Bare Marriage team, and so many others, in addition to my own study. Discovering what the Bible truly teaches about women and marriage, and that it completely contradicts the church model I was so familiar was groundbreaking for me. I shared my paper with the pastor and assistant pastor before I gave my presentation to the rest of the interns, and the response I got was “I know you are earnest and you want the best for everyone, but you are young and inexperienced, and you will come to see the flaws in what you’re talking about.” I was told that I was too young and inexperienced to have a heart for God’s people who are being oppressed and ignored in today’s church. Needless to say, the presentation didn’t go much better (my sister and I were the only girls in the program; the rest were boys who were either clueless or entitled and repeatedly asked irrelevant questions to derail the discussion time following the presentation).

    My childhood church has solid doctrine on every other issue, good Biblical teaching, practically-egalitarian function (with the exception of certain families), and an incredibly caring community. But there have been instances of abuse, damaging counseling, sexual misconduct among members of the youth group that could have been prevented with better-trained leaders. A woman was murdered by her extremely abusive husband while they were attending. I’m not blaming that on the church at all, but my heart hurts for all of these people (that woman’s daughter particularly,who got sent to live with very fundamentalist relatives).

    What if, instead of dogmatically defending doctrines they really don’t even live out, my church had championed the role of women as fully-fledged leaders, teachers, and mothers? What if they hadn’t referenced struggling couples to sketchy “biblical” counselors, and had instead gotten them to trained professionals? What if our youth leaders had been equipped to recognize and deal justly with the creepy teenage boys harassing the girls? What if abusers were called out, and victims were protected? What would be different in the history of my church if truly caring for the WHOLE body of Christ was a priority?

    I just wanted to thank you all at Bare Marriage for the incredible work you are doing. You are staying faithful and firm, because this theology IS harmful. Even if it never gets to its logical end, even if the churches teaching it don’t really adhere to it, the underlying implication that women aren’t quite as important to God as men is so damaging. So thank you for the role you’ve had in my life – I’m 24 now and married to an amazing, amazing man who is truly a women’s champion, just as Jesus was. We humbly hope to set an example by our marriage, and eventually by raising our kids to break these toxic cycles so ingrained in the church.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Oh, wow! That’s such a an amazing story. I’m humbled by the role I could play in it, and I’m so glad that you’ve found freedom. I’m sorry, too, for the missed opportunities your church had to truly be Jesus’ hands and feet. That’s so sad.

      Reply
    • Nessie

      Audrey- Just wanted to say welcome, and congrats on taking a step to push your comfort zone by commenting here! Also, I find it incredibly brave that you did your research paper on the topic of women in church/marriage roles given that is such a heated topic! Very impressive! I’m sorry their hearts weren’t softened yet enough to see your wisdom and validate your thoughts and findings.

      Reply
      • Audrey

        Thank you! I am so thankful for the blog and how it’s helped me not only debunk terrible theology but rebuild a truly godly one. And haha, yeah, I am a very all-or-nothing person, so I went for the big topic!

        Reply
    • Lisa Johns

      I just want to say that it sounds like you REALLY did your homework on this, and the way the male leadership belittled your research and your feminine voice is deplorable. Thank you for sharing with us. It was a great thing to read, and we need people like you who are able to research and clearly articulate the issues. Please keep sharing!

      Reply
      • Audrey

        Thanks for the encouragement, Lisa!

        Reply
  11. JoB

    Huh. Martha Peace’s logic about God’s sovereignty, right down to the words and verses are almost identical to the conclusions I drew years ago when I was wrestling with “surrendering” to God. Not with regard to complementarianism/gender hierarchy, but just the relationship between God and humans generally. I honestly cannot conceive of a God who cares about my earthly happiness or material wellbeing. I don’t really understand what people mean when they say Jesus is a comforter. Like in what way? What does that mean? The conclusion I drew a long time ago was that God didn’t have any obligations to me, he could throw me in the trash like a potter throws out clay if he feels like it, and I have no right to complain. Sorry to be a downer, but Martha Peace’s logic about God’s sovereignty makes a lot of sense to me.

    Reply
    • Jo R

      Right there with you, JoB. I have had no comfort, I have felt tremendous burdens, heavy weights, and complete condemnation. My life is the total embodiment of “hope deferred makes a heart sick.”

      Hugs if you want ’em.

      Reply
      • JoB

        Thanks, Jo R. The part of me that can take a step back from my feelings of hurt over it is just genuinely curious how some/most people can say spiritual comfort is such an integral part of being a Christian, and some (at least 2 of us, anyway!) don’t even understand what they are talking about. It feels like colorblindness, I am just not experiencing what they are. Sometimes I speculate that people with depressive personalities are blocked from feeling it, just like people with psychosis don’t stop experiencing psychosis even if they intellectually trust in God. Sometimes I speculate that maybe God wants me to provide my own emotional comfort (which I’m currently trying to do with medication and therapy), just as much as He wants me to provide for my own physical needs by working. And that’s where I turned to the Martha Peace logic – some disciples got their heads chopped off immediately, and some had angels bust them out of jail. God’s going to do what God’s going to do, and it will hurt less if I stop wanting it to make sense or expecting to find “fairness” or at least uniformity in the way that God treats me compared with others. That logic helps numb the emotional pain of feeling rejected and unloved when I compare my experience with others’. I don’t understand why He hasn’t allowed me to experience a sense of closeness, love or comfort from Him, and it hurts when I look around and see others experiencing it, when it’s really the one thing I have wanted more than anything in the world.

        Hugs in return, wishing you peace in your day.

        Reply
        • Jo R

          Yep, I always took my lack of comfort, lack of peace, and feelings of near total condemnation as proof of my utter sinfulness and depravity. I was the Christian who’d get to heaven barely escaping the flames.

          Clearly, I was NEVER going to be perfect the way we are commanded to be, because I had been blasted by my father for being imperfect for my entire childhood (and adulthood, until he died). God was basically my dad writ large, with the additional ability (and right!) to send me to hell.

          Hope died a long time ago, and I don’t see it coming back to life.

          Lotsa comfort there!

          Maybe one day we’ll be able to get together to share a beverage and do that in-person hug. 😊 🫂 🤗

          Reply
    • Enna Adelaar

      For over thirty years of my life, I believed the same about God, even if I couldn’t articulate it. There was no comfort experienced, no unconditional love… There were only walls between God and I that no amount of heartfelt efforts to read my Bible and pray more could ever surmount.
      But God brought me on a journey.
      I had what I cannot explain as anything other than a free, unasked for gift from God. From one of my lowest points, I took a stress leave for a week from work.
      Now, I grew up in very fundamentalist, Mennonite churches. Unexplainable spiritual “miracles” were not in my frame of reference. One day that week, I picked up my Bible and sat down on my couch… Didn’t even open it yet… And I felt something so good, so big, so peaceful, so joy-filled, that it defies explanation, especially for someone who has lived a life of abuse and trauma… I did not know positive emotions or peace. And this was like peace so big I couldn’t contain it. It instantly changed things for months in my body and mind. It cemented in my mind that God is real. That God sees me, and when he sees me, he looks upon me with great love and compassion.

      That event, plus others, started me asking questions. One of which was, God, show me who you really are. Show me the lies I’ve believed.

      And now, almost 4 years since that experience, I stand firmly planted on a Holy God who is abounding in love. I am learning to read the Bible and see – God is a God who is Holy and Sovereign, but in that holiness and sovereignty, he sees us for who we are – imperfect humans who struggle, and he always always wants to pour out compassion and love.

      Now, after a life of only neutral or negative emotions or stress adrenaline responses that tricked my brain into calling them pleasure…. Now I know what God’s Spirit in me feels like. I know joy. I know peace. I know I can bring my laments to God and he will sit with me in them. He will speak to me and encourage me.

      I did not think any of those things were possible. And even if they were, God wouldn’t do that for me.

      I was wrong. And it has been a long, hard journey to this point, but I’m so grateful to have those walls between God and I torn down.

      May you have your own journey, and may mine encourage you somehow.

      Reply
      • Sheila Wray Gregoire

        Oh, that’s beautiful! I’ve had those moments too, and they have really sustained me. Thank you for sharing!

        Reply
  12. Becky

    So according to Martha Peace bad things happen to people because they don’t please God? So then she extrapolated blind obedience to pleasing God therefore God will give us a good life? That is more prosperity theology.
    So how does this explain child abuse and child molestation? God caused those things because kids were disobedient? Not to mention all the catastrophe around the world that happens?
    Absolutely not!! Christ does not sit in heaven throwing metaphorical swords at some people to get them to obey and then give all blessings to obedient people. God is not a vending machine and he isn’t a dictator? According to Martha peace she will obey God to avoid a beating. No wonder these people won’t let go of spanking kids despite all the negative outcomes.
    Where is the free will? She kind of seems to be mocking God like we control God to generate our own outcome in marriage and life. This makes me angry and as pointed out here Jesus name is being dragged through the mud.

    The label complementarian is so weird. They should change it to the army or hierarchy model. Truly if men and women complement each other then should not they simply find out how they complement each other as a team to make a home run? Why do I need a million rules when I can use my God given critical thinking skills to figure out how to fix the family washing machine even if I am a wife not husband. I don’t think God cares who cooks dinner or mows the lawn but really more about loving each other. That literally is the second command Jesus gave us after loving God with all of our heart is to love each other.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I agree the label is wrong. I like to call it hierarchical marriage vs. mutual marriage or Jesus-centered marriage. I think that’s more applicable.

      Reply

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