The Doug Wilson blowup made me realize: We need to speak to our friends about fear.
Did you see the CNN interview with Wilson and members of his church last week? Basically, in that interview they supported:
- Women existing primarily for reproduction (exactly against what the apostle Paul said)
- Repealing the 19th amendment that allows women to vote
- Women obeying their husbands
- Recognizing that women are not truly equal.
In a segment that wasn’t aired but was filmed (and that Canon Press posted), Wilson also said slavery wasn’t that bad.
And then Pete Hegseth, the Secretary of Defence, retweeted it implying he agreed with all of it.
So someone 4th in line to the presidency of the United States doesn’t think women should have the right to vote.
Of course this is horrifying–although what really disturbs me is that people think it’s just Doug Wilson. All Wilson did was say out loud and crudely what evangelical pastors have been dancing around for years. His views on marriage and sexuality are really quite in line with mainstream evangelicalism, if you look at what Love & Respect or For Women Only or Every Man’s Battle teaches. It’s not really fringe.
But it is seriously destructive, and the types of people who go to his churches tend to be very fundamentalist, and very abusive.
Okay, that’s the background. Now to what I really want to talk about:
People get pulled into toxic teachings often out of fear
This weekend there’s been a ton of talk online about Wilson and the people who follow him. So many are sharing stories of how they got sucked in (at least those who are now out are sharing the stories! Or people whose siblings or children got sucked in). And overwhelmingly the answer is simple: People were scared and they were looking for certainty.
Whenever people join cults, that’s often the reason. They’re scared, and they want guarantees. You can add in a dose of racism and sexism too, since often people are looking for places to belong that confirm their prejudices. But over and over again, the main reason, the impetus, is fear.
I remember interviewing both Tia Levings and Cait West last year on the Bare Marriage podcast, with Tia talking about her book The Well Trained Wife and Cait talking about her book Rift. Both of them ended up getting sucked in to Wilson’s cult–or at least Wilson adjacent. Tia ended up there because her parents, after they moved to Florida and knew nobody, and were floundering, found a huge SBC megachurch in the area that promised to help them raise their kids right. Later she married a man who was mentally unstable who was attracted to Wilson because he promised him control and power.
West ended up in the cult because her father was scared that the world would corrupt his children, and so he gravitated towards something that offered him guarantees–along with power.
In both cases, parents were looking for safety, for guarantees, and even for power.
They felt powerless, and they were trying to find solutions.
In both cases, families got sucked in from other people in their more mainstream churches
So you had families attending relatively mainstream churches (still ultra conservative and patriarchal, but Levings’ family’s church, for instance, was a flagship SBC church. So literally right in the middle of the mainstream evanglical church family). And these families were searching for certainty and for solutions.
And in these mainstream churches were people who were followers of Doug Wilson or his ilk.
And these followers were volunteering to host Bible studies. They were passing toxic books around. They were very vocal about what they believed. And they weren’t being challenged by leadership. So these toxic, extreme beliefs spread.
Toxic beliefs can spread underground in mainstream churches
Now, again, I don’t think the toxic beliefs are really all that different from what is taught in most evangelical churches–they’re just taking it to the logical extreme.
But nevertheless, I don’t think most pastors would actually condone Doug Wilson. Yet these pastors said nothing, and the super conservative, toxic families were also great volunteers, running Sunday Schools and offering to host Bible studies. And so the churches get taken over, or at least a large segment of the church population gets sucked in.
So here’s the question: how can we stop our friends from getting sucked in?
That’s what I want to talk about today! So here are some pointers:
1. Talk against the toxic stuff BEFORE people flirt with it
Don’t wait for people to get interested in Doug Wilson before you start talking about what’s wrong with him. Share it on your social media now. Speak up in Bible studies. Talk about what’s wrong with extremism BEFORE anyone is actually interested in it, so you’re not just reacting to it.
One of the big findings in our survey for The Great Sex Rescue was that people tended to hear about toxic teachings, and internalize toxic teachings, from Christian media and online resources and not from their church or pastor. So people could be going to the healthiest church in the world, but if the pastor or Bible study leaders aren’t specifically talking about the dangers of our evangelical best-selling resources, or about the dangers of purity culture or Focus on the Family, or about Doug Wilson, people can get sucked in.
Don’t wait until it’s a problem to mention it!
2. Fight against misinformation
Our churches are filled with misinformation–that kids are at greater risk than ever before and things have never been this bad, for instance. Absolutely not true. Teen pregnancy rates have been coming down since the 1980s. Sexual activity among teens, and drug and alcohol use, was greater in the 1980s than it is today. Now, we have more mental health issues, and more bullying with social media, so we have different problems. But the sky is not falling.
Similarly, so many Christian organizations make money by telling people that everybody is out to get them, and that Christian persecution is everywhere.
But the person 4th in line to the presidency just publicly affirmed his belief that women aren’t equal to men and shouldn’t be allowed to vote, with no consequences. Does that sound like persecution to you?
When people say crazy things, call them out. Comment on people’s social media posts. But most of all, share posts that are dispelling these myths.
3. Invite people to actually challenge the toxic stuff–with our free studies!
Doug Wilson made inroads because people would start Bible studies of his books.
Well, we can do the same thing! Invite your friends to walk through a study of She Deserves Better or of The Great Sex Rescue with you this year. We’ve got FREE video studies that go along with each book that you can use, to make it super easy. We want to make this accessible to everyone.
If you study the healthy books with them now, they’re so much less likely to get sucked in to this bad stuff, AND they’re more likely to stop passing toxic stuff on to their kids! You can make a generational change, and a church change.
Plus the studies are super fun! Do them over Zoom with friends from college; do them in person with friends from your church. For She Deserves Better, we specifically made the study so even people without daughters could process the material and think about how these purity culture messages affected them growing up. It’s a great study to do with millennials as well–even single ones! So it’s not only for the married or for moms.
With Great Sex Rescue, it’s a great one to do with newlyweds, with young friends, or even with marriage mentors who want to know what their church congregation has been taught.
The Wilson debacle shows us that we have to be proactive
Toxic stuff spreads when we don’t speak up, because people are highly motivated by fear and prejudice.
So let’s combat that early, and show why Jesus is such a better way than this toxic, evil, demonic, vile sludge.
We can do better! And we’re so excited to offer you these free book studies. The Great Sex Rescue one has been around for a while, but we’re just launching the She Deserves Better one now (and The Marriage You Want one is coming in October!).
Wilson has his army of recruiters. We need an army of truth tellers. And it doesn’t have to be hard; it’s just reaching out and caring for your friends around you.
I hope you’ll join us!
I wonder if another issue with the spread of false teaching is that so many people don’t want to put the effort into thinking things through for themselves – they just want a ‘tickbox’ list they can follow to ‘be a good Christian’.
When I was growing up and the preacher announced the Bible passage he would be speaking from, you could hear pages rustling all over the church as people looked it up. We were encouraged to do this by the speakers themselves, to match what they were saying against Scripture. And if we ever disagreed with something the preacher said, to challenge them about it after the service. Our teachers expected their congregation to be thinking things through and making up their own minds about what they believed. But so many people now just seem content to be spoon-fed with what they should think by their pastor, without using their own minds!
^^^ This right here!! It’s not just church and/or Christian circles. I see it in areas that interest me like weightlifting and eating healthy. Many people just want these crazy strict rules and guidelines and are unwilling to look into the information themselves.
I think this is part of the root of the problems, people need to read, learn, and understand for themselves… How do we combat this when many prefer to blindly follow and be spoon fed?
It’s fleshly. People want rules instead of dealing with nuance. It’s avoidance of reality too-there aren’t guarantees.
The old covenant=rules. NC=Spirit.
They are in opposition.
I do think critical thinking has gone out the window. With social media, etc., so many things have become sound bites and we rarely hear the other side articulated.
I grew up in these churches too, and taught my children to look up the verses and read the larger context. I listened to their questions and challenges to what pastors said. We would discuss them quietly amongst ourselves during the sermon, and more loudly in private.
What I found is that when I did ask questions about a pastor’s interpretation – whether in person or by email – is that I was brushed off, “put in my place”, informed that I was wrong to even ask, and made unwelcome in the church. It was/is common lip-service, an act to emulate humility. In the dozens of churches I was once a part of, only one pastor ever took the time to hear my question and engage with me.
Brittany is right; often people do not engage their brains. But part of why is because it has been trained into many congregations (or schools, or political parties, or families), even while the pastor (or teacher, or politician, or parent) feigns to care about anyone else’s opinion.
I’m so sorry that was your experience. I’ve been privileged to spend time in churches with leaders who genuinely meant it. I remember querying something my pastor said during his sermon when I was in my early 20s. The next Sunday, he publicly acknowledged from the pulpit that his remark had been incorrect and thanked me for pointing that out. At the time, I was totally mortified – I was incredibly shy and so embarrassed to be pointed out as a person who had challenged the pastor’s interpretation!!! – but looking back on it, I am struck by his genuine humility and graciousness. Being willing to be challenged by a youngster half your age and admitting they were right in front of a couple of hundred people is a mark of a really godly leader.
“and the super conservative, toxic families were also great volunteers, running Sunday Schools and offering to host Bible studies. And so the churches get taken over …” Yes! This is how it happens. And these people are often top donors, too.
Speaking of mainstream, and widely loved and accepted:
Tim Keller.
https://podcast.gospelinlife.com/e/marriage-as-completion-gender-roles-part-1-1694031027/
This linked sermon is only the tip of the iceberg.
I have been saying for years, that he is very dangerous for the very reason that he positioned himself as moderate.
It seems many are distracted by his intellectualism and apparent reasonableness. I know I was, for a time.
I bring this up in order that those who are curious can do their own research, critical thinking and apply discernment.
As someone who fell into a couple of Doug-Wilson-adjacent churches (one of which is now well on its way to becoming a megachurch), I affirm this post 100%. The desire for certainty – check. The subtle fear-mongering – check.
Maybe this goes without saying, but pride in intellectual abilities was another big one among both leaders and members. We were “so much smarter” and “so much more discerning” because we’d found “the ONE church ACTUALLY preaching the GOSPEL.” Marci Preheim wrote about this on her old blog: http://www.marcipreheim.com/2018/03/07/the-theology-of-fear/
But the pride in intellectualism and the exhortations to “be in the Word” didn’t actually extend to combining the two. Case in point – the sermon where the pastor acknowledged that slavery in the antebellum USA was bad, but said that slavery in the Bible was “a workable economic system.” He used the tenth commandment (don’t covet your neighbor’s wife or slave) to say that, since wives are members of the family, slaves must have been, too. Completely neglecting to mention that we’re also not supposed to covet our neighbor’s DONKEY. Stuff like this was allowed to go unquestioned all the stinking time.
It’s so infuriating! And, yes, it’s everywhere.
I find myself thinking about Daryl Davis with all of this.
See someone like Wilson wants something that in the end is actually very good. He wants people to love their country and to take the idea that Jesus is the ruler of the universe seriously. Those are good things.
But Wilson has a problem in not only the means he would take to that end but in what some of his beliefs are.
What we have to ask though is even though his beliefs are wrong what is the good he sees in them? If I had to guess he wants people to see the good in family, that men are women are different and that that is kind of awesome because we have different perspectives and that makes the world beautiful. I see him as looking at divorce and realizing this sucks. I see him as thinking why cant they see I want good things?
I dont think he is wrong with wanting things like that but his means are a problem.
He is right to point out men and women are different but his insistence that women are dangerous subversive if not controlled is going to create the things he fears. If he fears that women will try and destroy Christians doesn’t he see that it is a self fulfilling prophecy to treat women as being the enemies of christ?
I mean if Davis could deradicalize Klan members then surely Christ can deradicakize those that I truly believe do see a value in him that has gone awry.
How do you know what he wants?
Why do you think he wants something other than what he’s getting?
It sounds like you want to justify your agreement with him in some areas by finding a silver lining, while identifying harm that he’s actively propagating.
Look at the fruit. Intention does not negate harm.
I don’t agree with him I just want to see ok where might he be coming from. I don’t deny that he is causing harm. As for knowing what he wants I will be honest I don’t know what he wants I just think I know what he might want from looking into interviews with people on podcasts like Sons of Patriarchy where they have talked with folks who have worked on trying to do outreach to people who believe things like what Wilson believes.
After being shamed out of our church for asking questions and attempting to point out truths that are *not* a part of the authoritarian handbook, I can totally relate to this post. Fear and shame were used to keep people in line. The red flags were flying high — long-time members were just disappearing, with the Pastors saying, “come talk to us if you have questions” so they could control the narrative.
*** One small correction – The SECDEF is #6 in line to the US President. https://www.usa.gov/presidential-succession
It is eerie how similar the experiences are in these sort of churches!
Just to make things clear I don’t agree with Doug Wilson. The man defends antebellum slavery and I find that dispicable. I don’t agree with the idea of revoking the 19th amendment as well my grandmother is perhaps one of the best influences I have had in my life. I don’t want people to get the wrong idea about me. I want people who are stuck in bad ideas to get help and I can say that I have been stuck in bad ideas before. Do you know what it is like to live bouncing your eyes? I do. It is exhausting. I got new perspective here and it helped me enjoy life. So I hope I don’t give people the wrong ideas about who I am.
I get it, Codec! Appreciate you!
I get it. I think your posts point to someone who is always trying to learn and understand and be humble. Giving other people the benefit of the doubt is part of that. It is a scary to go out on a limb and say, “This person is not just mistaken, they are BAD.” We are in the middle of a very bad situation at church in which we have had to come to terms with the fact that our new pastor is not just mistaken, young, inexperienced- he is actually bad. And while I understand he himself is hurt (grew up in a super conservative, explosive household, and appears to possibly be on the spectrum) it doesn’t change the fact that he is actively choosing to deceive and manipulate to shore up his own power. And that is what Doug Wilson is doing as well. Some of Wilson’s followers are sincere (and sincerely mistaken.) Wilson himself is a very bad man. I do believe this. Wilson is seeking Wilson’s heaven on earth, not God’s will. He is an incredibly arrogant man. While you might be able to rehabilitate his followers- he is probably a lost cause. It sounds harsh, but when a man puts himself in a position that rivals God, I think God leaves him to it. Perhaps he could come to repentance, but it would take a fundamental change in his heart that only God can effect. This kind goes not out but by prayer and fasting.
Wow, I relate to so much of this. We went through something very similar in the church we just left. So sorry to hear you had to go through that. How heartbreaking.
All of the “community churches” in our area are reformed Baptist churches that excel at community, but that have horribly toxic teachings. We just spent the last 2 1/2 years at one of them. About six months ago, we started getting wind that the church had ties to a church in Moscow. We’ve asked the pastor about it and he’s extremely defensive. He denies the influence of Doug Wilson, but it is so clear that it is there and I know for a fact that he gave Doug Wilson’s book on marriage to some of our friends a few years ago. I can’t even begin to describe the kind of hurt that Doug Wilson‘s teachings have done to this community. Some of it has yet to be discovered as people live out the toxicity in their own lives, marriages, and with their children.
I’m really thankful that you’re starting to speak up against him. I’m thankful for all the resources that you have for us right now. We have no church at the moment but we hope that when we do find one that we can share your fantastic research and plant seeds to help grow healthy communities.
I’m so sorry your community is like that! I’d just say don’t be afraid to try other denominations. Or to do more of a house church. I know it can be lonely. I’m so sorry!
“we started getting wind that the church had ties to a church in Moscow”
Doug Wilson and his “kirk” are trying to do to Moscow Idaho what the Rajneeshees tried to do to Antelope Oregon, what Bethel IS doing to Redding California, and what Scientology DID do to Clearwater Florida.
I agree with this, especially the part about directly challenging the toxic beliefs. When I was growing up, I didn’t hear about most of the purity culture stuff from my parents or pastors- it was from other sources which were allowed to exist in that environment without being challenged. And those more conservative, “extreme” beliefs presented themselves as “we’re REALLY following God’s way” – and then there wasn’t really anybody making a real response to that. Maybe some people said they didn’t agree with it because “that’s too extreme” but that didn’t mean anything to me because we’re supposed to be “extreme” in our devotion to Jesus (“love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind”).
What would have been nice is if the church had taught “here are some healthy things we believe” and gave solid reasons for them, and then when a toxic belief comes along, everyone can see it conflicts with our healthy beliefs, so we don’t get sucked in to it. Rather than just teaching a “moderate” version of “wives have to submit to their husbands” (or whatever belief).
I love this! And this is it exactly: “it was from other sources which were allowed to exist in that environment without being challenged.”
I remember we’d go to these youth conferences or missions conferences and that’s where the extreme stuff came in. But it was never challenged.
One of my barriers to processing my religious trauma early on was telling myself, “It wasn’t that bad.” Not because the effect of these toxic teachings wasn’t horrible, but because I was exposed to these teachings “underground.” My family wasn’t a part of IBLP, but my aunt introduced me to IBLP principles through Bright Lights/Before You Meet Prince Charming. I tried to gaslight myself into believing my trauma didn’t exist because I never went to Big Sandy or took the basic seminar. But my trauma is still there. To heal my trauma and protect others, I have to daily recognize that even a little bit of poison is bad for me.
Like one guy I knew during the whole COVID mess who quoted QAnon almost chapter-and-verse but didn’t know who QAnon was.
Turned out QAnon’s teachings had gone viral into some of the blogs and “trusted (Real not Fake) News sources” he frequented. And after a couple stops and rtellings along the grapevine, their source was lost but the teachings still remained. The same dynamic as how Creepypastas (online horror fiction) get mistaken for True Paranormal Encounters somewhere along the journey to Reddit and YouTube and Coast to Coast AM.
That is so true, Rachel! We were never in as deep as some, but the trauma was definitely still there.
“All Wilson did was say out loud and crudely what evangelical pastors have been dancing around for years.”
Like Fred Phelps, his real Sin is being too direct instead of using the Proper Code Words.
“Our churches are filled with misinformation–that kids are at greater risk than ever before and things have never been this bad, for instance.”
I remember hearing that word-for-word on Christianese AM radio some 40-50 years ago. Right up there with how End-Time Prophecies Are Being Fulfilled Even As We Speak — We might not have a 1978! or even a 1977! COME QUICKLY LORD JESUS!” (any minute now… any minute now… any minute now…) Last time I looked it was 2025.
“Doug Wilson made inroads because people would start Bible studies of his books.”
Tip from a survivor of the Dispensation of Hal Lindsay and the Satanic Panic:
If the Bible Study doesn’t have a Bible as its main document (instead of Late Great Planet Earth or The Calvary Road or Jack Chick tracts or QAnon breadcrumb drops or Watchman Nee or Mike Warnke or Left Behind), BAIL OUT IMMEDIATELY!