What happens when we tell girls that “boys will want to push your sexual boundaries”?
That’s one of the toxic teachings that we measured in both our books The Great Sex Rescue and She Deserves Better! If you haven’t read them yet, you should!
This week we’re launching a FREE video book study for She Deserves Better (The Great Sex Rescue one has been out for a while), and so I thought I’d talk about our findings for this one question.
In our books, we share our survey results where we looked at how these common teachings affected women’s marital and sexual satisfaction, and how we can rescue and reframe these things so it’s in line with Jesus.
When you read them, you’ll feel validated. And heard. And they’re fun, too!
So what does it do when we tell girls that boys will push their sexual boundaries?
Well, our survey showed that it had impacted women’s marital and sexual satisfaction.
How Believing Boys Will Push Girls’ Sexual Boundaries Affects Marriage
When girls believe this in high school, then, once married, they are:
- 59% more likely to engage in sex only because they feel they must
- 24% less likely to orgasm frequently
- 58% more likely to be uncomfortable with how their husband looks at other women when they are in public
- 47% more likely to report not feeling “heard” when in conflict with their husbands
From The Great Sex Rescue
Why does this teaching negatively affect girls?
Well, it teaches girls to disregard red flags when dating–and thus they may be more likely to marry men of poor character.
I don’t think that’s the only reason it hurts marriages. I explained more about how the gatekeeping message teaches women to always be in control, and then they’re not able to relax during sex (and we dedicated chapter 4 to it in The Great Sex Rescue).
But the red flag issue is an important one, as one woman described on Facebook:
So, my experience growing up in purity culture, this message makes it nearly impossible for women to identify unsafe men. When a man pushes sexual boundaries and disrespects a woman, when she has clearly stated her no, he isn’t safe. That should be a major red flag. That should be a man that women walk away from. And if women KNEW this in the church, then these men would have to step up or stay single. But instead all these books and sermons have told girls that this is just how boys are. So women are dating and marrying VERY unsafe men. Instead we need to be teaching women to accept nothing less than respect in a relationship.
Exactly! Girls aren’t taught that boys pushing your boundaries is a red flag, something that you should be wary of. Instead, we’re taught that it’s part of being male. As we said in She Deserves Better, and as I shared on Facebook:
Plus this leads to women being date raped and thinking it’s their fault. And we had so many stories in She Deserves Better of women who married their rapists because they thought they had no other choice now.
Now, some moms have said to me: But girls DO need to be taught that boys might want to push their boundaries!
(And do you remember our conversation with Preston Sprinkle about it on Theology in the Raw where he had this take?) Yes, they do. But that “might” is an important word there. I would phrase it to my daughters like this (and this is how we did talk about it):
Some boys are primarily interested in sex with you. Those types of boys won’t respect your boundaries, and will push against your “no”. That’s a sign that they don’t respect you as a person, and they’re not a good person with good character that you want to be with. A good person respects your “no”. If you’re ever with someone who doesn’t respect your “no”, that is not a safe situation. Know that you are never to blame! But also know that this is a sign that that is not a healthy relationship, and it should end.
But many guys, most guys even, will respect your boundaries. If a boy does know Jesus, he may want really, really badly to have sex (because that’s natural; you’ll likely want to, too!), but he will respect your boundaries and he will have some of his own. In a makeout situation, you’re both likely to want to go further, especially if you’re really in love. That’s why it’s important to have boundaries. But know your boundaries; make sure he respects yours, and make sure you respect his.
(of course, we also had ongoing conversations about sexual assault, so they would have known they weren’t to blame, too).
That’s a healthier message! That teaches them to identify red flags; it teaches them that not all boys are gross, but most are honorable; and it teaches them that temptation and sexual desire isn’t sinful.
Can you see the difference?
But if, as a girl, you only ever hear that all boys will push your sexual boundaries, will you even know to try to find a better guy?
Then, of course, there’s the effect that this message has on boys, as another Facebook commenter noted:
Not to mention I think it 100% sets boys up to become men who are slaves to their baser selves. They are not taught that they are in control of themselves. They are not taught that they CAN have self discipline. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy that leads to things like porn addiction. When the bar is set low, you stay low. When you teach someone that they are not better than this, they will continue to believe this is their “curse.” Or worse that it’s normal. I’ve seen so many men grow up in the church, shackled by porn addiction, in despondent resignation, in failing marriages that this is just the way they are and there no hope so they might as well push that boundary.
Do boys suffer because the bar is set so low?
I think they do. Why are we raising boys to think that sinning is natural? That part of being male is trying to see how far he can push a girl?
I think many (most?) youth groups are trying to teach boys to be honorable, which is great. But you can’t do that while also teaching that natural male behavior is to push boundaries. It’s not, and sets boys up to fail.
Church, we can do better.
Like I have previously talked about, our youth groups can do better. We’re on a quest to help people identify harmful messages, and to replace them with ones that honor each other and honor God.
We do that in all of our books, and I hope our free book studies help you start helpful conversations with your friends about why these teachings are actually toxic.
But for today, let me ask: Has this message about boys pushing boundaries affected you? Did you grow up feeling like all boys are pigs? Did you grow up feeling like there was no point in expecting boys to do better?
Or if you were a guy, I’d love to hear what messages you were taught in church! Let’s talk in the comments.
P.S.: We’ve got more resources to help you educate your friends on why this stuff is harmful!
In our Great Sex Rescue toolkit we have handouts for each of the toxic teachings we measured, and show the effects long-term on women, and what’s a healthier way to talk about this issue instead.
Age 12, in a church youth group, I was groped by a lad my age. Two female youth leaders watched it happen, laughed and said ‘He’s growing up fast’. Then one of the women turned to me and said “Welcome to a woman’s world.” Probably the most concise ‘explanation’ I ever received of the ‘fact’ that all men are animals and women just have to put up with it, although the message was reiterated many times in the years to come.
Oh that’s so awful! I hate that.
Wait there wasn’t anybody threatening to whoop the guy? That kind of behavior would have gotten me in a whole lot of trouble.
I got to say as a man I actually find it incredibly insulting that people peddle the idea that as a man I can’t possibly try to contain myself. Not only does this feed into predatory behavior against women, but it would feed into predatory behavior against men as well. Think about it if a guy doesn’t learn how to say no and how to recognize wait a minute my body is aroused but I am scared you are priming them for abuse in the same way that women are primed for abuse. Also can I just say as a man that I find this whole notion of oh no I am aroused therefore I can not possibly try to calm myself down feels really uncomfortable. It feels like you are saying to men that if they feel any amount of erotic attraction that it has to end with sex which I assure you will lead only to pain and confusion. Men who don’t want to feel like scum might turn to porn because they think well it’s better than pushing the boundaries of a woman I know. It isn’t logical but you can see why people might do that.
Thanks for speaking up, Codec! We need more men speaking up about how dehumanizing this is for men too!
This is a major area of my faith that I’m trying to heal. I’m a single woman in my late 20s (never dated, grew up in a very conservative/religious household where dating was made this huge deal, lots of repression around the topic of sex etc) and my knowledge about sex and sexuality came largely from friends and the internet. And the result is that I find myself physically repulsed by how male sexuality has been presented to me to the point that Ive decided not to marry. It just goes so far into history (pedastary for example, use of assault as a weapon, the way we speak about sex, male desire for certain activities which border on degeneracy.anecdoted about what married men get up to). I don’t want to look at my brothers in Christ that way and I know it’s important for me to heal my sexuality even as a single person but it just feels so disheartening.
There ARE good guys out there. The fact that ‘he will always push’ is such a prevalent teaching makes it difficult for the guys that don’t push. A girl can wonder ‘what’s wrong with me?’ A guy is then put in a difficult position. It’s possible the closeness she wants isn’t even sexual but he’s not comfortable with it (there are many possible, healthy reasons). Guys need to know how to handle this. Girls need to know it doesnt mean he is not interested. We’ve just all been so brainwashed that we jump to the wrong conclusions.
I dont have answers…just thinking out loud.
I think you’re right. If he’s not all over her she thinks he’s not attracted to her.
I want to comment on this from a male perspective. Men sometimes get flak for not understanding female flirting. In my experience though the reason why men don’t get it is a few things. 1. They do get it and they are terrified to respond because they don’t want to come off as a creep. 2. They have been told that it is wrong to harass women and thus do not want to even have the association of doing so. 3. They are oblivious but that doesn’t mean they are not interested. 4. They do not get it or perhaps they do and they just are not interested. There is a serious issue though that people have this idea that if you are not all over somebody you may be interested in that it means you do not actually like them. Well a lot of men may be into somebody but they do not want to approach because they aren’t quite sure how, but one thing is for sure they do not want to be called the next Harvey Weinstein because most guys don’t want to be scumbags. You wind up with another issue though in that a lot of guys are actually also concerned about predatory behavior. A lot of men will find flirting uncomfortable because they do not want to be taken advantage of any more than a woman would want a man to take advantage of them.
I appreciate your willingness to help us see things through a male perspective. Thank you!
I hadn’t really thought about it as flirting. I was picturing a couple where she is more comfortable with physical closeness than he is. Perhaps he is upholding what he feels is an appropriate boundary or maybe he is managing arousal in a way that is comfortable for him. Whatever the reason, he would prefer less physical contact. (Let’s say snuggling on the couch with others around). I think the teachings that are so prevalent make it seem like he’s not into her (though she may be his world). Maybe this is only an issue in super conservative circles and I’m making too much of it. It hurts to watch a guy doing what he believes is right and be so misunderstood for it.
Yes, it’s such a toxic teaching for both boys and girls. It teaches the girls to put up with being assaulted and abused because they’ve been taught that ‘all men’ are like that, and if they meet a guy who doesn’t behave like that, then yes, they are probably going to conclude that he isn’t attracted to them rather than that he is just being a decent human being! Meanwhile, the boys who DO control themselves can be left feeling like they aren’t ‘real men’ because they don’t have this overwhelming urge to behave like predators. And find that when they do try to show interest in a girl, she doesn’t pick up on it because she’s been taught that for males, good behaviour is incompatible with sexual attraction…
I think the solution is to keep calling out unhealthy teaching and keep promoting the healthy stuff. Eventually the tide will turn. It will just take a long time.
I hope so because I fear that one thing that is happening that may wind up happening more is women being like why don’t guys approach me? I have seen videos where women are saying what is going on come on catcall me call me attractive squeeze me do something and I look at that as a man and think ok hold up is this a trap? A lot of men under thirty find the idea of aggressive flirting really uncomfortable because it brings up people like P Diddy or Weinstein and a lot of guys see that and think nope nope nope I don’t even want people to try to associate me with that as it could destroy my reputation. On the flip side though I see two radically different ideas coming from toxic places about how men should approach women. You have the show up and tell her you are mine now and I am going to dominate you and you will like it approach that you find with Tate and you have the pretend you are in a porn game attitude of become performative to get laid attitude put out there by pick up artist. Notice neither of those groups really take the idea of a long term relationship seriously. I think a lot of folks are interested in relationships but as a man I find them scary because I am not only working on myself, but I don’t want people to be able to call me a monster when I am not a monster. I have never put myself out there in part because I am still getting my own stuff in order but also in part because I am kinda scared.
Yeah when I was younger I was given The Rules book which told about how as a woman you should never be forward and initiate with men else you will get a man who won’t put in any effort into the relationship and doesn’t truly love you or something like that.
I think if more women were told it is okay to be forward and initiate and you aren’t too “easy” or a slut if you do and you can still have a good relationship and it isn’t doomed to fail if you initiate. then maybe that would also help. I think it would also ease a lot of the pressure of men.
“ SOME MOMS HAVE SAID TO ME: BUT GIRLS DO NEED TO BE TAUGHT THAT BOYS MIGHT WANT TO PUSH THEIR BOUNDARIES!”
What boys? All boys? Most boys? Most boys at least some of the time? A random assortment of boys? Let’s get specific!
My Fixed It For You: boys who aren’t safe, don’t respect you, don’t fear God, and aren’t good potential boyfriends or husbands will push your boundaries.
Exactly!
“So, my experience growing up in purity culture, this message makes it nearly impossible for women to identify unsafe men.”
This is exactly right! With my first boyfriend, years ago, he wanted to kiss me, and I said no, and then he didn’t mention it again- and then a while later (maybe a few weeks) I found out he *still* wanted to kiss me, but he hadn’t said anything about it because he didn’t want to pressure me. It was so surprising- I had never heard of a boy respecting a girl’s boundaries like that and very intentionally wanting to NOT pressure her.
For a girl that grows up believing in all the purity ideology, if she eventually marries a guy, it could go 2 different ways. She might marry an abuser, and she won’t realize there is something wrong with how he treats her. She was always taught that this is just how men are. It’s just part of his God-given manly nature that he’s incapable of being a decent human being toward his wife if she’s not submitting to him, or not giving him sex enough, or not respecting him enough, etc. Or, she might marry a guy who’s a good person, and she will constantly be astonished because she was taught that men are just not capable of that.
The other thing I think it complicates is the normal discussion around bumping up against boundaries. When you are getting all hot and heavy you might want to push things farther than the boundary you set when apart. This very well could be consensual but would likely cause some regret later. In this case no one is really “disrespecting one’s boundaries”, per se. Couples have to have the ability to respectfully step back and have a conversation that says “this feels great but I think we are heading towards some choices we will not like later, lets back off a bit on the physical stuff.” With this teaching, there is no real way to have this conversation and certainly no way to have this conversation where everyone feels heard and have their needs met.
That’s a really good point, Megan.
One of the best ways to avoid temptation is to decide on your limits ahead of time. If you go into an auction house, have an absolute upper limit for a piece of art, no matter how exciting the bidding gets.
You’re bringing up a great point. What happens when young men are *told ahead of time* that they get to push the pre-determined boundaries?
On a more benign front, does she decide in advance that since her boundaries are going to get pushed, she needs to move those boundaries up? She’s okay with making out and maybe her shirt coming off; however, since her boundaries are going to get pushed, she sets the boundary in advance that she’s only okay with light kissing. He pushes her boundaries and learns that it’s okay to push boundaries.
Such a functional way of creating a physical relationship! (Eye roll)
It absolutely is insulting, and this has just occurred to me now, but I wonder how much this message is behind my lifelong struggles to have close friendships with other men.