Do we Think Jesus Saves Women so Women Can Save Men?

by | Apr 27, 2022 | gsr | 66 comments

Does Jesus Save Women so Women Save Men?

How is it that we defeat sin?

According to the Bible, the Holy Spirit transforms us into the likeness of Christ (Romans 8:29) and sanctifies us once we make Jesus Lord of our life. We live by the Spirit (Romans 8) and we aren’t slaves to sin anymore. We take every thought captive (2 Corinthians 10:5). We walk in Jesus’ steps and we throw off everything that hinders (Hebrews 12:1-3) as we run the race.

But how is that so many Christian books and organizations say that men defeat sin?

Women do it for them.

Last week I told you about the chapel service that I did at Colorado Christian University. I talked about how I apologized for the very low view of men that we have in far too many Christian resources. I had some people ask me to elaborate on the graphic that I used, and I thought I’d do so today.

Here’s the problem: Whenever we tell women that they should do something to prevent sin in men, then we say that Jesus isn’t who sanctifies men; it’s women.

And when we look at what far too many books and resources say, that’s certainly the impression I get.

Here are just a few:​

“Your wife can be a methadone-like fix when your temperature is rising.” (p. 118)

“Once he tells you he’s going cold turkey, be like a merciful vial of methadone for him.” (p. 120)

“When men aren’t getting regular sexual release, their eyes are more difficult to control. Help him out in this battle. Give him release.” (p. 148)

“I want to be free, but I’m becoming frustrated and angry with the church. The Bible says that women should dress modestly, but they don’t. The women soloists are always wearing the latest, tightest fashions. I look at them, but all I see are curves and legs. You know, the one who always wears the slit way up the thigh? That thigh flashes with every step she takes. I just get enraged!” (p. 23)

Steven Arterburn and Fred Stoeker

Every Man's Battle

About sending boudoir photos or nude photos to your husband: “Scott calls the photos “awesome” and says they draw him toward Izzy again and again. With those pictures seared in his mind, his sexual interest is centered on Izzy, and neurologically he’s less likely to be drawn to other women.”

Gary Thomas and Debra Fileta

Married Sex

“One satisfied husband summed it up rather graphically when asked if he had ever been tempted to try extramarital experiences: “When you have a Cadillac in the garage, how can you be tempted to steal a Volkswagen off the street?” (p. 33)

Tim and Beverly LaHaye

The Act of Marriage

“The cold, hard truth is that men are often lured into affairs because they are sexually deprived at home.” (p. 253)
Emerson Eggerichs

Love & Respect

“But for a husband, sex is pure need. His eyes, ears, brain and emotions get clouded if he doesn’t have that release.” (p. 62)
Stormie Omartian

Power of a Praying Wife

Those are just a few examples; I don’t want to spend hours combing through my notes for The Great Sex Rescue to find more. But trust me–they’re everywhere. Men will lust if women don’t cover up. Women are stumbling blocks. Women should have more sex to keep their husbands from watching porn. If girls don’t watch what they dress, they’ll be responsible for boys lusting (tons of those quotes in our notes for our upcoming mothers of daughters book, She Deserves Better).

What if you’re NOT the problem with your sex life?

What if the messages that you’ve been taught have messed things up–and what if there’s a way to escape these toxic teachings?

It’s time for a Great Sex Rescue.

And then there’s what these books say about male nature–that men sin simply because that’s the way they’re wired:

Most of these are also from our notes for The Great Sex Rescue, though the newer ones, like Gary Thomas’ Married Sex, I’ve found since.

“Even apart from our stopping short of God’s standards, we find another reason for the prevalence of sexual sin among men. We got there naturally–simply by being male.” (Every Man’s Battle, p. 61)

“[S]ome form of sexual sin is a universal struggle among all men. There isn’t a man alive who isn’t bent in his sexual desires. (Gary Thomas, Quoting Al Mohler, “What Your Husband May Never Tell You (and one thing he needs to do accordingly)”

“Remember, our habits are rooted in our maleness. We understand them. Women don’t. Almost without fail, women who hear about your sexual impuity will think of you as a pervert.” (Every Man’s Battle, p. 116)

“Men don’t naturally have that Christian view of sex.” (Every Heart Restored, p. 87)

“Women must cultivate the problem of visual lust, whereas men almost universally must cope with the problem just because they are men.” (Act of Marriage, p. 298)

When I read the quotes from Every Man’s Battle about men not having the Christian view of sex, one of the women in the audience actually shouted “No way!” They were shocked.

But it’s not just about sex either!

The Gospel Coalition put out a reel earlier this year where Ligon Duncan said that men can’t be expected to do “risky” things for Christ like reading your Bible, praying, or thinking about life from a Christian point of view unless their wives were first respecting them. So men can’t be expected to do the bare minimum of the Christian life unless their wives were constantly telling them they were awesome and letting them be in charge.

Again, it’s not Jesus who transforms then. It’s not the Holy Spirit who helps men. It’s women.

Ironically, the churches that teach that men can’t behave without women often also believe in male only leadership in the church and home.

Check out our Merch!

[et_pb_shop type=”product_category” posts_number=”4″ include_categories=”1712,1711″ _builder_version=”4.15.1″ _module_preset=”default” global_colors_info=”{}”][/et_pb_shop]

What I want people to understand is that this is misandry.

It is misandry to say that men are made with LESS of a Christian nature than women. That men are more likely to sin than women. That men can’t be expected to do the basics of the Christian life, while women are already doing them.

It is misandry to say that there is something wrong with how God created men.

Now, if people were saying that men are more likely to sin in this way, and women are more likely to sin in this way, and men can stop women from sinning–well, I still think it’s wrong theologically, but at least it would be balanced. But that’s not what’s being said. In all of these passages, it’s assumed that women aren’t having a hard time not sinning. It’s only men who are. And women need to help them.

When I explain this, I am often accused of man-bashing.

I find this terribly ironic (and quite funny actually), because I’m doing the exact opposite. I’m saying that there isn’t anything inherently bad about being male. God did not make you “less than.” He did not create a nature where you automatically sin, and then tell you that you’re a dirty rotten sinner because you do. He did not give you an impossible job.

If you think this is man bashing, ask yourself: “Am I trying to find an excuse so that men can keep on lusting and watching porn without guilt?” Because to me, that’s what’s going on. People want a license for men to keep sinning, and the way they get that is to blame their sin on either God (you made me this way!) or women (she didn’t help me.) Sound familiar?

Jesus saves men, just as Jesus saves women.

To get the order mixed up is to create horrendously dysfunctional relationships that will never work, and to pull people further and further away from God.

I hope, in the next generation, we can get this right.

Do Women Save Men?

What do you think? Can you think of other examples? Is this a low view of men, or a high view of men? Let’s talk in the comments!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum

Sheila is determined to help Christians find biblical, healthy, evidence-based help for their marriages. And in doing so, she's turning the evangelical world on its head, challenging many of the toxic teachings, especially in her newest book The Great Sex Rescue. She’s an award-winning author of 8 books and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila works with her husband Keith and daughter Rebecca to create podcasts and courses to help couples find true intimacy. Plus she knits. All the time. ENTJ, straight 8

Related Posts

Adults Need Bedtimes Too!

Adults need bedtimes, too. Seriously. I have talked to thousands of couples over the last few...

Sheila Wray Gregoire

Author at Bare Marriage

Sheila is determined to help Christians find biblical, healthy, evidence-based help for their marriages. And in doing so, she's turning the evangelical world on its head, challenging many of the toxic teachings, especially in her newest book The Great Sex Rescue. She’s an award-winning author of 8 books and a sought-after speaker. With her humorous, no-nonsense approach, Sheila works with her husband Keith and daughter Rebecca to create podcasts and courses to help couples find true intimacy. Plus she knits. All the time. ENTJ, straight 8

Related Posts

Do We Understand the Power of a Responsive Libido?

Just because you have a responsive libido doesn't mean you don't have a libido! I make this point repeatedly in our revamped Boost Your Libido course that launches next Monday, but I really want to drive this home today: Just because you don't have what we call a...

Comments

We welcome your comments and want this to be a place for healthy discussion. Comments that are rude, profane, or abusive will not be allowed. Comments that are unrelated to the current post may be deleted. Comments above 300 words in length are let through at the moderator’s discretion and may be shortened to the first 300 words or deleted. By commenting you are agreeing to the terms outlined in our comment and privacy policy, which you can read in full here!

66 Comments

  1. Angharad

    It just shows the extent of the brainwashing the church has experienced over the years, that a preacher or writer can say “Men, you are too helpless and weak to follow Christ on your own, you need a woman to shield, nurture and protect you like a baby if you are to have any chance of living a holy life” and people talk about how wonderful it is and how ‘affirming’ for men. And then you say “Men, there is Biblical and scientific evidence to prove that you are capable of living a Christ-filled and courageous life through the power of the Holy Spirit, without needing to depend on women to prop you up all the time” and people start howling about how ‘anti-men’ you are!!!

    It’s like we hear what we expect or want to hear, not what is really being SAID!

    All these quotes you listed not only treat men like they are spoiled toddlers, they also say that women can transform a man’s life when the Holy Spirit can’t – how can these supposedly ‘Godly’ teachers not see that this is blasphemy???!!!

    And that quote about the cadillac in the garage…I can’t imagine how stressful it must be to be married to a guy like that. Always worrying that if you get a bit too wrinkly or creaky-jointed, or your health suddenly fails, or you have an accident that scars you, you’ll be demoted to a ‘rusty volkswagon’. I came across a similar quote in a secular novel I read once – the difference was that in the novel, the quote showed the female characters that the man who said it was not a safe guy to date. Sad that in a ‘Christian’ book, it’s used to demonstrate that the guy who says things like that is right and women just need to work harder to make sure they stay at ‘cadillac’ standard.

    Reply
    • CMT

      “In the novel, the quote showed the female characters that the man who said it was not a safe guy to date. Sad that in a ‘Christian’ book, it’s used to demonstrate that the guy who says things like that is right”

      Ironic isn’t it. Kind of like preaching as nauseam that men are meant to be the heads of everything while at the same time insisting that men can’t possibly be expected to behave if they can see a woman’s cleavage. Doesn’t make a lot of sense from outside the echo chamber.

      Reply
  2. Anon

    So then maybe this is the reason why when women learn their husbands have been addicted to pornography, the first instinct is to ask themselves if they did something wrong, if they didn’t provide enough sex, if they are somehow responsible. This flawed train of logic not only brainwashed men into thinking their weak because they are men, or also brainwashes women into taking on the blame of their husband’s sin. Very good post!

    Reply
    • Anon

      *it also

      Reply
      • Codec

        It is a vicious cycle.

        You do not want to approach because you feel unapproachable. You feel unapproachable because of what you do. You approach what you because it makes the pain go away. After you are done you do not want people to approach you.

        Reply
    • Laura

      I’d been there before. My ex husband was addicted to porn and frequented strip clubs. He told me if we had sex more often then he wouldn’t be looking at porn or visiting strip clubs. I could give him all the sex he ever wanted and it was still not enough. He still continued looking at porn and visiting strip clubs. I concluded that maybe I wasn’t attractive enough for him. During our marriage, I struggled with bulimia off and on. After I left him, I stopped purging. I wonder if that was a coincidence or divine something.

      Reply
  3. Gloria

    We left a patriarchal church years ago, but even after we left, I would still find a similar message in many books. I could never figure out how it could be true that my husband was my “spiritual head” with all kinds of authority over me but at the same time it was my job to keep him from sinning. It goes beyond lust, too. I’ve heard “He won’t lead because she won’t let him” and other similar nonsense many times. (I no longer believe he has to lead, but my point is that no one ever seemed to question the contradictions in these statements.)

    Reply
  4. Sarah O

    Thank you for writing this, it can be your “go-to” link for accusations of misandry moving forward.

    I believe the Holy Spirit is uniquely equipped and capable of transforming persons (any person) into the likeness of Christ. PERIOD.

    How does anyone reconcile the catch-22 of male helplessness and male leadership? How can anyone occupy both utter dependence and unquestionable leadership at the same time?

    Reply
  5. Codec

    I have to ask. Are you going to write a book aimed to young men the same way you are writing a book aimed at mothers and daughters?

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I’m not sure? We don’t have plans to right now (we’re under contract for a big marriage book, so that’s the next project). I’ve talked to some male counselors about it and maybe doing a book with them. But it would be further down the road.

      Reply
      • Codec

        That cpuld be interesting. I have yet to read your books, but I do like what I have read.

        Reply
  6. Jo R

    What’s an unmarried man supposed to do? What woman does he get to blame? Oh, that’s right. He gets to blame every woman who crosses his path.

    (And can’t these pastors, authors, and teachers come up with anything even slightly original to try to excuse men’s sin? “The woman you put here with me” was done a ***very*** long time ago.)

    Reply
    • Amy

      I recently read a book called “Breaking the Marriage Idol” by Kutter Calloway. There was a chapter on singleness written by a man who is same-sex attracted who has made the conscious decision to remain single and celibate. This author comments that while he was a teenage boy and realizing his attraction to other males the message in his youth group was the “all men struggle with lust TOWARDS FEMALES” message. There wasn’t a message for him and his situation, so he had to face it alone in silence.

      The message from the church is so focused on marriage being the be-all, end-all for everyone that it completely misses that some people are same-sex attracted. Some people don’t have strong sex drives. What about teens? Those yet to be married? Those who never will get married? The divorced? The widowed? Those deployed or with jobs where they are frequently away from home? That’s a lot of groups where this nice, neatly packaged message just doesn’t fit.

      Reply
      • Angharad

        Yes, I’m praying right now for a couple where the wife has been seriously ill in hospital for over a year – she is not physically capable of having sex right now (and may never be again). A lot of the ‘standard’ marriage advice must ring very hollow to this couple.

        Reply
      • Laura

        I enjoyed that book. I keep it for reference and have put tabs in certain pages. It really is true how the church makes marriage out to be the be-all and end-all of life. After having been away from the church for over two years now, thanks to COVID, I feel so much freer and better than okay with my singleness. I haven’t felt the pressure to get married. I would like to someday if that’s what God wants, but for now I am content where I’m at.

        Reply
  7. Nathan

    I’m not so sure that these quotes and authors are saying “Jesus redeems women so that women can redeem men”. It seems more to me that they’re saying that men are redeemed by Jesus, but that women represent a constant temptation to sin.

    It sounds like they aren’t exhorting women to be pure and cover up (except at home, when they’re supposed to be porn stars), but are instead telling women to do this so that pure and redeemed men won’t backslide.

    To put it still another way, they aren’t so much saying that “men need women to lift them up” as they’re saying “men need women to stop pulling them down”.

    Reply
    • CMT

      “they aren’t so much saying that “men need women to lift them up” as they’re saying “men need women to stop pulling them down”.”

      Well, maybe. Some modesty messaging does come across that way. I’m not sure it matters. Either way, you’re still saying that women need to change their behavior so that men sin less. But “be methadone for him” and “men don’t naturally have that Christian view of sex” doesn’t really sound like “women, help pure and redeemed men not backslide” to me.

      Reply
      • Laura

        I agree. These male evangelical authors are sending the message that it’s up to women to do all the changing. The men don’t have to do anything.

        Reply
    • Nessie

      I totally get what you are saying here and I definitely agree to a point. I think the issue is that they are still putting women between God and men.

      As a woman, I am made to feel as though it is my responsibility to pull my husband closer to Christ simply by “putting out” as much as I possibly can stand- and then some. If I do not, then I am hindering his relationship with Christ because, according to Stormie Omartian, I am allowing his, “eyes, ears, brain and emotions [to] get clouded,” which means I have a responsibility than I was never meant to have.

      Either way, it is still a pathetically low view of men!

      Reply
    • Jo R

      So when Jesus told men that looking lustfully at a woman was the same as committing adultery with her, what exactly would she have been wearing ***in that culture*** that “caused” the man to sin?

      Reply
      • Laura

        Who knows? Maybe the color of her clothing?

        Reply
      • tj

        hahahahahah nailed it!!!!

        Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      I’m not sure about that, Nathan, simply because so many say that men can’t be expected to do the right thing unless their wives help them. So they can’t not have affairs unless women have sex. They can’t not lust unless wives have sex. They can’t think about life from a Christian point of view unless women respect them. Like the thing making men do the right thing isn’t God; it’s women.

      Reply
  8. Nathan

    And from a topic from a few days ago
    From Emerson Eggerichs L&R p. 235
    “The cold, hard truth is that men are often lured into affairs because they are sexually deprived at home.”

    If I were to say that peer-reviewed research has shown that this is NOT a common reason that men cheat, some people will denounce me as anti-God, anti-Bible and anti-church, even though nothing like this quote ever appears in the Bible.

    They’ll say this because I’m contradicting somebody who wrote a book that he CALLS “Christian”, but that’s not the same thing.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Exactly, Nathan! I really do think we put these authors on far too high a pedestal and equate these teachings with Scripture.

      Reply
      • Mindy

        Sheila, I remember our pastor years ago actually TEACHING FROM THIS BOOK for a Sunday sermon. He so encouraged everyone to read it…”transformative!” I read it and shuddered through the entire thing. As an emotionally abused wife (though at the time I didn’t feel I had permission to recognize that, because, well, marriage vows), the entire thing seemed so absurd! I’m supposed to just RESPECT him, regardless? What do I choose to focus on and what do I choose to ignore in order to just give that respect? “I respect you so much, that you (searching… trying to find something respect-worthy) got out of bed this morning and went to work, you wonderful man, that I’m not even bothered by the porn I know you stayed up late watching and the fact that I’m asking for help with our four kids, but you’re too tired because you stayed up late watching porn. But that’s ok. I just still respect you…. Now will you stop watching porn?” The cognitive dissonance required for that was too much. I remember getting to the final chapter… something about ‘she fears that she will be treated like a doormat,’ and I just sobbed. I. Couldn’t. Do. It. I put the book down.
        No longer at that church. Better yet, no longer with that man.

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          I’m so glad you’re in a healthy place now, and I’m so sorry both for what you went through and for the fact that your church thought this book was the bomb. What a waste.

          Reply
    • Laura

      Very true. Of course, they would consider it anti-Christian because the Bible is the only resource they claim they need even though the things they claim are biblical are not even mentioned in the Bible.

      Like I had mentioned in another post a few days ago that there are Christians who say the husband is the priest of his home. There is NOWHERE in the Bible that says this at all. Even my pastor said this in his last Fathers’ Day sermon. I guess he thought he was trying to prop up the men to be good fathers. His logic could have been this, “By telling men they are the leaders (priests) of their homes, they will be more motivated to initiate family devotion time, get the family to church on time, and be proactive at making decisions in the home.”

      Reply
  9. Nessie

    In a sense, the teachings that a woman can keep a man from sinning is prideful, too… I fully believed that if my husband turned to pornography, it’d be my fault. When I later found out that he had- during my younger, pre-childbirth, pre-sag years- then I knew I would never be able to keep him from that. It makes us focus too much on how we look, comparing our bodies to other women’s bodies… so much pridefulness is actually preached to us in that way (Cadillac, anyone?). I struggle with how ugly I feel now, knowing the images he can compare my body to, and it makes me feel sick.

    I recall reading a book years ago in a women’s bible study (SBC church) stating something about running out to the store without having nice clothes and hair and make-up done was disrepecting my husband and potentially embarrassing him. If I’m running out to get more fence posts to set, I’m not taking a shower and putting on make-up just to get back into post-hole digging, etc.! (I AM gonna knock enough mud off me to not trek it on the store floors, etc. to show respect to those who work at the store.) If that makes my husband feel disrespected, then I think it’s more telling that he isn’t in there working with me- and that should be more embarrassing to him than my appearance.

    It truly is astonishing how many people fault the TLHV and TGSR teams and like-thinkers for misandry… how many of these “teachers” have asked God for the wisdom He promises if we only ask? I feel like many are too prideful to ask Him for that…

    What a mess.

    Reply
    • Laura

      During my 2.5 years of marital hell with the ex, I struggled with bulimia. I felt like one of the reasons he turned to porn and strip clubs was because maybe I wasn’t attractive enough for him. I never had big boobs and I was a bit chunky at the time.

      Reply
      • Nessie

        I hope you know deep down now that how you looked had nothing to do with his poor actions. I’m sorry you have gone through so much and I hope you feel happier with your body now. <3

        Reply
        • Laura

          Thank you, Nessie!

          It’s been 20 years since I left him and I still struggle with body image issues. That’s been a struggle since age 13. I take care of my body by exercising regularly and watching what I eat. I’m still afraid to have any man see me naked. Maybe that’s why I’ve stayed single and broke off an engagement several years ago. There was a lot of sexual abuse in the marriage as well.

          Reply
  10. Nathan

    > > It truly is astonishing how many people fault the
    > > TLHV and TGSR teams and like-thinkers for misandry

    Very true. While some posts here and there MIGHT be misinterpreted as anti-male, the site itself and the team are anything BUT anti-male. What’s going on in this case is that for years, Christian literature and writings have been EXTREMELY pro-male-only, male patriarchy, (God loves men, and women are sort of okay, too), that our view itself has become slanted.

    So, when a site like this comes along and talks about how God values men and women equally, and how neither one should be in power over the other that it can APPEAR to be anti-male when it really isn’t.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Yes, this is the root of it! When you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

      Reply
      • Nathan

        There’s a political analogy for this, too, but I try very hard to avoid such things on this site (I get enough of that on other web sites)

        Reply
  11. Amy

    The irony about this graphic is that it’s just like the Gothard umbrellas, only reversed.

    People so badly want hierarchical systems, but one of the radical things about Jesus is that he threw all the hierarchy out. Just go directly to Jesus. My takeaway lesson lately has been if you see hierarchy in a “Christian” system, it’s not really of Jesus. Jesus meets us directly, face-to-face, not through a system or another person.

    Reply
      • Mara R

        I think most of us do think of the Gothard graphic as we discuss this.

        It might not hurt to set your graphic and Gothard’s next to each other as a visual for this “the emperor has no clothes” issue we have all been dealing with.

        My dad, who had been in management for years, called this out. He pointed out that the ‘leader’ had ALL of the Authority and NONE of the Responsibility. While the one being led had all the responsibility and none of the authority which is an unhealthy and destructive leadership style in the business world.

        I will go on to add that this management/power dynamic is also abusive and unjust.

        And as others have mentioned above, hierarchy, including this management/power dynamic, is the opposite of what Jesus taught.

        Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          Oh, this is so good! I’ll bring this out in my round-up on Friday!

          Reply
  12. Nathan

    1. Utter helplessness and always on the brink of falling into the pit of sexual sin, either because women won’t pull us out, or they push us in

    2. Utter, absolute and unquestioning leadership and authority.

    Yes, this is indeed a bizarre combination. Very similar to the idea of “women were basically created to have sex with their husbands on demand, but they aren’t supposed to enjoy it themselves”.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      It almost makes you laugh, until you realize how much damage is being done!

      Reply
  13. Jane Eyre

    I can’t even begin to explain how upsetting the “Cadillac” comment is.

    Is it about the way we look? We can’t fight nature. We will get older, chubbier, wrinkled. We can’t will ourselves to remain firm and taut forever, especially not after having kids. So over time, we are going to be rusty Volkswagens and our husbands will crave the young hot things we used to be. Awesome.

    Is it the way we are in bed? So we have to be total porn stars, acrobatic, creative, and giving all the time – even though HE is the one whose orgasm is guaranteed. Awesome.

    I noticed what’s missing is any sort of discussion of who we are as people and our relationship to the family. No good husband and father would ever want to tell his children that he cheated on their mother because she got fat or didn’t put out enough. You don’t not-cheat because your wife is a Cadillac in the bedroom; you remain faithful because you told God on your wedding day that you would be faithful to your wife. You remain faithful because this is the mother of your children.

    Reply
    • Amy

      As I read these comments about women being Cadillac’s, I can’t help but think about my sister. My sister has a chronic medical condition. She was also in a bad accident a few years ago that left significant scarring on her body. Physically, she’s not a Cadillac. However, I also have this lovely memory of my faithful, loving brother-in-law feeding her bite by bite while she was in the hospital after her accident because at the time she was unable to feed herself. He is so supportive of her medical challenges. This is the picture of men that I want to see, not a picture of men who act like horrible human beings because a woman isn’t the perfect picture of what we want her to be. How did the church ever think this message was ok??

      Reply
  14. JoB

    Can you imagine if “christian” literature treated coveting like lusting? (Since they are essentially the same thing)

    If they said women are just naturally avaricious- it’s how God programmed us… so make sure your wife is so saturated with material goods that she doesn’t have a chance to covet what belongs to others! When was the last time she went shoe shopping?

    What if the cold, hard truth is that women often stray because they find a man who can buy them nicer things and wants to spoil them?

    A wife, when asked if she ever thought about cheating, simpered and said, “Well, he buys me everything I want, so why would I try to open a line of credit somewhere else?”

    Reply
    • CMT

      I think they beat you to it…

      TWW posted recently about a marriage book by Dan Akin that included a list of “jokes” about husbands and wives.

      “#3: A successful man is one who makes more money than his
      wife can spend.
      A successful woman is one who can find such a man.”

      Yes, yes it’s meant to be “funny” but…

      Reply
      • Sheila Wray Gregoire

        Oh, I saw Dee from The Wartburg Watch posted about that book yesterday! The jokes were so cringey.

        Reply
        • CMT

          I mean the book is 20 years old but, yeah. Cringey. And it’s not like that stuff has gone away.

          Reply
      • Jane Eyre

        While there are some women who love to spend money, many times, “women” are spending money because they are in charge of running the household. Pans got warped and worn out? Time for a Target run. Furniture is stained and run down? She shops for a new sofa. Kids need clothes? She’s buying them PJs and socks and pants and shirts.

        That isn’t a speedy wife! Imagine if we acted like men were spendthrifts because they usually pay the mortgage or are the ones to buy lawnmowers.

        Reply
        • Jane Eyre

          I put “women” in quotes because it’s household money being spent on household necessities, it just happens that the wife/mother is the one initiating the purchases because that’s how they divide labour.

          Reply
        • Sheila Wray Gregoire

          Exactly, Jane! Why was the visa bill so high last month? Because Johnny grew two pant sizes in the last two months, and they both need new winter jackets.

          (Again, I do believe in budgeting and taking clothing into consideration in the budget and great communication so you both understand this. But all too often the thought is, “she’s spending money like water!” when at times it’s actually because she’s doing all the shopping for what the family needs).

          Reply
          • Nessie

            Great point by Jane Eyre. Beyond needs, there is often the purchase of gifts for family… if a husband has dumped the responsibility of buying birthday/Christmas gifts for “his” family on “her,” not a word of complaint should be uttered by him, imo.

            As mom of a tall kid, I LOL’ed at the Johnny grew 2 pant sizes comment! Between pants and shoes, our pediatrician told us at his 2 yr appointment to spread out our budgeting and not buy all his “back to school” clothes at once- and he was absolutely right! lol

          • Jane Eyre

            It can also be that young people don’t understand how much stuff costs and how everything adds up. Food, rent, electric, water, sewer, internet, cell, car insurance, gas, household goods (soap, shampoo, dish detergent, tissues, laundry detergent, pots, pans), clothes, shoes, health insurance, 401k…. Then kids – you may as well just throw your wallet into a volcano.

            So I can see the impulse to wonder where all the money goes! But figure it out and if you think she’s so spendy, you figure out where to cut the budget. I’m guessing that Johnny does in fact need new pants, you all like eating and showers, insurance is good, and no-one likes to be homeless or freezing, so the reality is that the money needs to be spent.

    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Yes, it’s pretty ridiculous when you put it like that, isn’t it? But it’s so true!

      Reply
  15. Wangari

    Thanks Sheila and Keith for removing the veil to these damaging teachings. Personally I think most of these writers struggle with sexual lust and try to justify their struggles by making it a male thing. They need to seriously repent and ask the Spirit of God to help them instead of misleading masses.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      It really does sound like that when you read the books. Every Man’s Battle especially talks about women in such objectified terms. It’s like–it doesn’t sound like they’ve recovered at all.

      Reply
  16. Carla

    You are too kind to assume that there is any logic to this type of teaching. It exists solely to assure that men enjoy all the privileges of marriages and women bear all the responsibility. These churches are all about power and control and have nothing to do with Jesus except to employ Him as a mascot to achieve their goal.

    Reply
  17. Edwin S

    This is an attempt at “Christian feminism” which is much like “Christian Satanism,” a concoction formed by hell. The authoress’ problem is with the Bible, not just certain modern Christian books and philosophies. Read and meditate on passages in 1 Cor. 7. This chapter starts right out with a main reason for marriage is to prevent fornication (this word means all or any sinful sexual actions) (Also see Hebrews 13:4). The chapter also speaks of connubial or marital rights and that one’s body (which includes all parts of it) after marriage belongs to the respective spouse rather than self. Withholding the body from the spouse is a type of fornication which is one reason Jesus said “fornication” instead of “adultery” in Mt. 19:9. Modern women need to realize that agreeing to marry a man is also agreeing to submit to frequent sexual acts with him; he is not just a groom on that special day and then an ATM machine. This should be discussed before marriage in our era where many people have such strange ideas about most subjects. Let the Bible define life, not some modern demonic thoughts planted in the mind of Jezebel.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Thank you, Edwin, for proving why this website is needed.

      By the way, it is extremely condescending to speak to me about 1 Corinthians 7, considering I basically wrote a whole book on it. You also very much misunderstand the point of those verses. Sex is something MUTUAL, INTIMATE, and PLEASURABLE FOR BOTH, as it is defined throughout the Bible. It is not using someone; it is a deep knowing. And it is completely and utterly mutual, as 1 Corinthians 7 says. To say that Every Man’s Battle interpretation of 1 Corinthians 7 is correct is, quite simply, to ignore everything about the Bible and what we know about emotional and relational health, and focus merely on a man’s rights.

      And if you think that men benefit from one-sided obligation sex to keep them from watching porn–then I’m pretty sure you’re not a safe person.

      Reply
      • Mara R

        Edwin: “This is an attempt at “Christian feminism” which is much like “Christian Satanism,” a concoction formed by hell.”

        Sheila: “Thank you, Edwin, for proving why this website is needed.”

        So much misogyny in so few words from Edwin.

        Any woman pointing out the flaws in interpretation in the male-centric doctrines on sex and marriage is immediately judged as being in cahoots with the devil himself.
        Instead of proving his point, all he can do is use inflammatory words and insults to try to reduce and shame.

        Edwin, honey, no. No, you do not understand the Bible. You don’t get it at all. To you, the Bible is a bludgeoning tool to use against the evil (in your eyes) feminine. And any woman that dares to believe that God loves her too is among the evil feminine to you.

        I thank God that you, Edwin, are not a true representation of Christ-like manhood, but rather biblical manhood, like the Levite in Judges 19.

        Reply
    • Jo R

      Did you know more than sixty percent of women cannot orgasm through PIV alone because of anatomical geometry?

      Are modern husbands therefore equally required to agree to doing sexual acts other than PIV, since 1 Corinthians 7:3 commands husbands to perform their marital duty to their wives? Or are women supposed to endure pleasureless penetration and orgasm deprivation?

      If women ought to be satisfied with orgasm deprivation because the husbands won’t do more than PIV, are wives allowed to halt PIV before the husbands achieve orgasm, so that both spouses are experiencing equal sexual outcomes, since 1 Corinthians 7 grants completely equal sexual rights and responsibilities to both husbands and wives?

      Reply
    • Jo R

      And, Edwin, when is the last time you referred to a man as “Ahab”?

      Let me take a wild guess and say “never.” And if not, why not?

      Reply
      • Mara R

        Men also avoid talking about the spirit of Balaam mentioned in Revelation (like the spirit of Jezebel).

        The spirit of Balaam tried to get the early church to sin also. But because it is a masculine representation of this spirit rather than the feminine, men never preach about him. Only against Jezebel, like the Salem and Inquisition hunters and torturers of old.

        Edwin is stuck in Salem and the Spanish Inquisition. He needs to be redeemed by the blood and sacrifice of Jesus and to stop attacking what he fears and refuses to understand.

        Reply
  18. Elle

    “Modern women need to realize that agreeing to marry a man is also agreeing to submit to frequent sexual acts with him”.

    How you get that out of 1 Cor 7 is a testament to your arrested development, Edwin. Even if that interpretation were valid in light of the rest of the Bible (hint: NOT), then at minimum you could flip that sentence to read “modern MEN need to realize [they are] agreeing to submit to frequent sexual acts with HER”. Do you have the skill to pleasure your wife?

    Neither men nor women are happy and whole in these transactional marriages that treat men like spoiled children and women like objects.

    You’re mistaken in the most perverse way and I pray God stops you in your tracks before it’s too late and you land yourself in jail for rape.

    Reply

Submit a Comment

Your email address will not be published.