How do you initiate sex with your wife without turning her off?
We’ve been working through an obligation sex series for the last few weeks, and one of the big things I’ve been stressing is that making your spouse feel like they are obligated to have sex has disastrous consequences–especially for women. Obligation sex lowers libido. It lowers orgasm rates. It even increases rates of sexual pain.
Most men don’t want their wives to do something they don’t want to do. They want their wives to honestly want sex!
But then there’s a conundrum. How do you initiate sex without it feeling like pressure?
A guy who reads this blog recently sent me in this question:
I’m a happily married husband without libido problems. I find that it doesn’t come natural for me to initiate sexual intimacy verbally and my dear wife does not want me to initiate intimacy by jumping into foreplay without asking first. When in the mood, my wife initiates but she does want me to initiate, too.
She wants to feel pursued, but if he grabs her when she’s not thinking that way–well, that can often be a turn off. So let’s start at first principles.
What do we mean by “initiating sex”?
On our male-centric sex podcast a while back, we shared this graphic of the sexual response cycle:
When people talk about “initiating sex”, they are often confusing two things: the actions that you do that lead up to someone being willing to start affection, and the actions that are more appropriate from transitioning from excitement to arousal.
If you’re leading with foreplay before anything else, you’re going straight for what’s appropriate partway through the sexual response cycle, NOT what’s appropriate before we’re even on the cycle!
While some women enjoy being groped out of nowhere, most do not. Most find it a huge turnoff.
If you’re interested in having sex tonight, then, the key is not to jump to arousal, but instead to build desire so that she’s willing to start affection.
Most women do not want to carry all the emotional load for building desire
I’ve had many women write to me saying, “My husband thinks he’s being a good guy by saying, “I don’t want you to do something you don’t want to do, so when you feel like sex, I’m here for you.” This seems selfless, like they’re not pressuring her.
But if she has more of a responsive libido, then she needs something to respond to! She needs some warming up, and she needs to be able to relax and feel close to you.
If she is now in charge of getting her desire to build so that she is the one who starts the affection, then she is now bearing all the labor of getting sex going. And for someone with a responsive libido, that’s a big weight to carry.
Here’s the key: a man has to be open to her saying no. Why do most guys put it in her court? Because they don’t want to be turned down, and they don’t want the awkwardness of pressuring her. But if she is going to feel truly safe and cherished in the relationship, she needs to know that she can say no without it impacting how he feels about her. That means that he needs to be okay with getting turned down.
Putting everything in her court isn’t right or fair, and when women say, “I just want him to initiate sometimes,” that’s what most women are saying. Take the pressure off of me!
Let’s look at how you can build desire so that she is willing to start.
Yes, there are also things that you can do to move from excitement to arousal, or to get her excited in the first place. But honestly–if you can move towards each of you being willing to start affection, and if there’s little pressure then often those things take care of themselves!
When initiating sex, gauge her interest level
1. Use a code word.
A number of people mentioned ways that a husband could test the waters and see what her interest level was.
My husband and I have a code. He’ll make the eyebrows jump while saying hmm hmm. If I reciprocate I’m in the mood. If not it dies there. He doesn’t have to speak to initiate and I don’t have to speak to let him know.
Looking back at that sexual response cycle chart, there’s a difference between “I want to actively NOT have sex right now” and “I’m don’t particularly want to have sex right now.” One state means you want to NOT have sex; the other state means you haven’t really thought about it and it’s not a pressing desire.
If someone actively wants to NOT have sex, then you shut it down, and you need to take their no for an answer.
Some couples adopt a code word as a way to signal–“It’s definitely a no tonight.”
If you want to avoid awkwardness, a code word can help.
2. Ask about her interest level directly
I’m more in favour of the direct approach, personally. Sex is personal, and sex is vulnerable, and so it needs to be something that you can communicate about. You can say something like:
Hey, I’d love to make love tonight, but I also want to just connect with you. So let me know if you’re not interested, but either way I’d like to feel close to you tonight.
That way she knows she can always say no and you’re still going to connect with her in other ways, but you’re also up front about what you’re feeling.
Initiate Sex by Building Desire
Many women actually want to be pursued and to be wooed to want to make love. They want to feel like you’re interested in them as a person, not just as a body. So try things to build connection during the day.
3. Text her throughout the day.
Let her know that you’re thinking about her and that she excites you.
Thinking about seeing all of you tonight!
Or,
Remembering the awesome time at [fill in the blank].
Or just,
I love you so much! So looking forward to coming home to you tonight.
Don’t be super flirty and sexy if you’ve found that she doesn’t reciprocate. That’s likely a sign that this is pressure, not fun.
But if she enjoys that, then go for it! Otherwise, stick to more romantic and loving texts. Then, when you get home, hug and kiss her and whisper something in her ear that reiterates that (“Can’t believe I have you to come home to…”)
4. Compliment her.
Tell her what a great job she’s doing at something that she really values but that stresses her out (like motherhood, or drawing boundaries with difficult people, or even at work). Tell her you’re proud of her. It’s a big turn on because she’ll see that you notice things about her which are important.
If you want to compliment her looks, be specific but not crass. Don’t just tell her she’s beautiful–tell her what about her is so beautiful. “I love how curvy you are” or “Your eyes are breathtaking” are better than, “You are so beautiful.”
5. Pray with her.
Prayer can actually be a big libido booster! When you open yourself up to God, and become vulnerable together before Him, it helps you feel more vulnerable towards each other, too. Emotional intimacy, that tearing down of walls, is one of the best triggers for getting your libido going. So pull closer to her with God, too!
6. Spend some time talking to her during the day–bonus if it’s while you’re in bed.
She needs to feel like you truly “know” her, and that you’re interested in what’s going on with her. And since many women can’t relax enough to have sex when there are tons of things running through our minds, when a guy helps us process all the concerns we have, it both helps us feel heard and cherished, but also helps us put those things on the back burner so that we can concentrate on what’s happening now!
And if you do this while you’re cuddling in bed–it’s easier for other things to start!
7. Ask her, “What’s the big thing that’s on your mind right now?”
Along the lines with the above suggestion, if she finds it difficult to get in the mood because she’s always feeling overwhelmed and busy, try to help her tackle her biggest stressor. Ask her what’s the biggest thing that’s worrying her. Then follow up and ask, “do you want me to listen, or do you want me to try to solve it?” And then do what she says!
"A groundbreaking look into what true, sacred biblical sexuality is intended to be. A must-read." - Rachael Denhollander
What if you're NOT the problem with your sex life?
What if the messages that you've been taught have messed things up--and what if there's a way to escape these toxic teachings?
It's time for a Great Sex Rescue.
Initiate Sex with Physical Touch:
Instead of jumping right to making out, touch her in other ways first.
8. Cuddle while you’re watching a movie
Touch her! If you’re spending time with her going for a walk, sitting on a couch, or doing just about anything–take her hand, cuddle her, anything!
9. Offer a massage.
Massage is such an important component of our intimate life. I often have so much on my mind, and I live so much in my head that I need that transition time to just FEEL. That’s what massage does. It helps me put all of the things I’m worried about on the back burner, and listen to what my body is feeling. And because it’s also relaxing, it’s a great way to build desire. So when you’re watching a movie, rub her shoulders or her feet. In bed, start rubbing her back. Let her transition from day time to evening time by letting the stress leave her body.
10. Start with a kiss
Finally, this is the big thing. If you want to make love, start with a kiss. Then make the kiss deeper. And see where it goes!
But with women, sex mostly starts with kissing, not with grabbing some other part of her body. Let her enjoy the kiss. Chances are you kissed a ton before you were married, but then often we stop kissing once we’re married because women are afraid that if they kiss, they lead you on, and they’re not sure that they necessarily want to make love.
That’s because it’s kissing itself that often starts to get us in the mood. Not in the first two seconds perhaps, but as the kiss goes on longer. So kiss her! Yes, sometimes she may still say no. But the kiss is worth it, in and of itself. It helps build desire and closeness, and without kissing, often no desire ever builds.
In everything, let the message be “I want you”, not just “I want sex.”
The key to initiating sex is to show her that you really are truly interested in her, not just in her body. So as you work through these suggestions, even if it doesn’t lead to sex, it builds your relationship, affection, and trust. And the more you show that she can say no without you punishing her or pulling away from her, the safer she will feel–and again, the more desire will build.
Initiating sex is vulnerable. It can be frustrating, because she can say no. But if we start thinking about initiating not just as doing the “sexy sexy,” but mostly as building the connection that you need in your relationship, then sex is more likely to become a less stressful and more passionate part of your life.
Normally for my top 10 posts, I tell you to pick 1-2 ideas and do them. But this, I think, is cumulative. Try to do ALL of them. Start with texting. Hold her hand. Talk to her. Pray with her. Give her a massage. Kiss her. And THAT’S how you initiate sex with your wife!
What do you find it your biggest turnoff? What makes you feel pressured? What would be your #11? Let’s talk in the comments!
This is an updated version of a post that ran a few years ago. Some of the comments from the original post are still below!
The Obligation Sex Series
- 10 Things to Know about Obligation Sex
- Why Obligation Sex Destroys Libido (and how it affects us long-term)
- Are Obligation Sex and Marital Rape the Same Thing?
- A Way Forward to Recovery from Obligation Sex
- Why Obligation Sex Can Make Sex Feel Disgusting
- You Don't Need to Consent to Being Used (what to do when your husband insists on obligation sex)
- How Higher Drive Spouses Can Avoid Giving the Obligation Sex Message
- 10 Ways Men Can Initiate Sex Without Pressuring Her
- The Obligation Sex podcast
Previous Posts on Obligation Sex
- Can We Honor our Bodies' Rhythms?
- Does 1 Corinthians 7 Mean that Women Have No Sexual Autonomy?
- What Happens When Men Believe the Obligation Sex Message?
Previous Podcasts on Obligation Sex
- New Research on the effects of Obligation Sex
- The Myth of the Magic Penis
- Marital Rape, Consent, and the Problems with Obligation Sex
Plus please see our Great Sex Rescue Toolkit for handy downloads about the effects of obligation sex that you can give to your pastor, counselor, small group leader--anyone who teaches it!
And see chapters 9 and 10 in The Great Sex Rescue for all our charts, stats, and commentary!
Okay, about kissing… Kissing is almost never enjoyable for me and I’m not sure what to do about it. My husband seems to think that kissing always means smearing saliva all over my mouth and face and it’s just unpleasant. There have been a couple of times recently where he kissed me “nicely,” but usually it just feels gross from the beginning. And he seems to think I’m cheating him if I give him a “nice” kiss instead of one that ends up with me feeling like I need to wash my face. I’ve tried to let him know when I DO enjoy it, so he knows what’s fun for me, but I guess it feels like like he doesn’t really care what I enjoy in that regard.
I should probably mention: Yes, we’ve got a lot of other baggage and issues, which may be making this aspect more complicated than necessary. But I still think it would help to be able to communicate better about kissing.
You know, I think that’s a really valid point. And I don’t think it’s just because of your baggage.
I think that kissing is a skill and an art, and people aren’t automatically good at it. And some of us find saliva much more aggravating than others do. Let me think about that because it may be worth a post of its own!
Yes please do a post about how to communicate that kissing isn’t pleasant because of too much saliva and tongue and just overall aggressiveness. Ugh, I dread kissing my husband for more than a quick good morning or good night because of the above reasons.
I’m not a huge fan of face/mouth kissing either :\ Its rare that we get a makeout or much of a kiss in. But I do like having my fingers kissed and licked, and breasts/necks are good for kissing too 😀 You could try having him kiss other places. I reciprocate with head/neck/shoulder massaging during the kissing.
Somebody commented a while back (it was in a post addressing purity culture, I think) that she wanted to know that a guy could kiss her without “raping her mouth.” I think that this is what we are talking about! My husband has always been about moving VERY quickly from a kiss to the saliva-and-aggression thing (if he would even kiss me at all), and it is just a huge gross turnoff. And the fact that a guy won’t listen to what his wife tries to tell him about how she would like to be treated… well, I don’t know about you, but if I had known then what I know now about red flags, I would never have married him. Kissing is important, and it is important that it not be made to be crass.
OK, I cannot say what a relief it is to read other women say kissing isn’t always amazing. Hubby was my first bf and only real kiss. And I too find he just goes too aggressive. I’m just not into it. This is the first time I’ve read other say it, Usually, it’s more like “what’s wrong with people who don’t like to kiss”. The thing is since he is the only one I’ve kissed I don’t know what to compare it to and what’s normal. He says it’s so weird I don’t like to french kiss, and he really misses it. I try, but I just can’t get into it. Now he is a great guy, who doesn’t force it, but when we talk honestly he tells me he misses it.
Same here! I usually see advice to encourage him to brush his teeth, floss, both use mouthwash, practice more and get better technique, etc. to make it better. Ok, maybe that’s “better” but it doesn’t mean it becomes enjoyable! Past experiences, sensory issues, etc. don’t change because of some minty coverup.
I don’t think it’s kind of your husband to call you weird for not liking french kissing. It’s a preference. Fwiw I don’t think you are weird.
I told my husband years ago if he didn’t stop forcing french kisses that I would stop kissing him altogether. I gave him warning for months. I told him it was eroding my trust in him. He kept doing what he wanted. Guess who stopped kissing him? That was years ago. Now we are in a sexless marriage longterm while I heal from years of sexual and psychological abuse (unintended, but it still damages).
Maybe you can encourage your husband that not french kissing is a small price to pay for not losing the rest of your sexual relationship?
Oh, wow, Nessie. That’s so awful that he didn’t listen to you no. I’m so sorry.
Thanks. There were lots of factors at play, and the past several years we have been peeling through them like a big ol’ onion. It stinks, haha, and brings up tears, but he finally woke up to the damage when I really put my foot down, and we are slowly working through things. I have hope now; I’m just acquiring a new level of patience along the way. 🙂 This blog has been really instrumental in the process. <3
I don’t know I might be the odd one out but I don’t enjoy it either. I actively avoid it while being intimate. Tbh I think it’s likely more enjoyable for the male. As a female it feels like a simulation of sex with the man sticking their tongue aggressively in your mouth. 🤷♀️. I think (as a female I can’t know) it’s precisely this that excites a guy so much and why they so aggressively kiss… it mimics sex itself. That’s always been my assumption anyway. It just feels like another way to have my personal space invaded.
I love 2, 4, 7, 8, 9! I think it’s important to remember to be okay with asking for it or voicing that you want him to be doing that that day.
I do a lot of “Could you give me a massage?” And “You should cuddle me.” And “What do you think is sexy/cute/beautiful about me?” And “Today I want you to set a timer to send me a bitmoji every 1.5 hours.” And “Are you going to ask about my day?” And “We should do a quick kitchen cleanup before we start our fun; could you work on the dishes?” Lots of candid prompting with easy to follow requests lol honestly, I actually think it can be good that he doesn’t come up with stuff on his own and expend his efforts because I can choose what I might want that day and he feels like he’s doing a good job.
I really love that, Alicia! And I think many husbands would, too. Ladies, Alicia makes a great point. We can take responsibility for what we need as well–and it’s okay to ask for it!
I actually copied some of this to put on Facebook later! 🙂 I think it’s a great point.
I do this often with my husband too. Sometimes I’m okay with it and it’s no big deal, and sometimes it’s just a total mood killer. Like, if I have to ask all these questions repeatedly for you to understand that I’m in the mood and how I want to be touched/held/played with/spoken to/etc, it just gets tedious and boring after awhile. You’d think that years of marriage would give him some clue as to what I like, and that he’d remember it for the future. But in my experience, I have to reteach about 70-80% of it at almost every sexual encounter. Guess some men are just slower learners than others. (Or maybe he doesn’t see it as important, which idk why he wouldn’t since we’d discussed that many times and he knows I need these things to get in the mood).
Yeah, I get that. I only use like two of them a day for the most part. I’ll also ask him to make me tea sometimes. But to be fair, I don’t put much effort into wooing him either because I know he has to be lead so much. If I want to initiate I basically just grab it, straddle the lap and rub/kiss, or say “I want you to jump me” haha I also just wear special lingerie for myself to enjoy because that doesn’t warrant physical action either. It’s nice that he’s so low maintenance.
That’s a thing that has absolutely made me crazy! — having to reteach him Every. Single. Time. Makes me furious, in retrospect. In my case, it was just a part of the fact that he didn’t listen to my requests/needs in ANY part of our marriage — it wasn’t just this area. The fact that I mattered so little has been extremely humiliating.
Alicia – I would love if my wife would ask these things of me. It would be fun. I chase my wife. That is what I do. I have been doing it for over 20 years. Personally I love it. So does she. However, I believe that if the communication was such that we were both chasing each other it would start out as ask me how my day was and 2 days later or maybe 20 mins later or if I am lucky 2mins later we are having sex. The key to the whole thing for me is to have little to no expectations or REALISTIC expectations and she must TRUST me. Example: Yesterday I was in my driveway talking to a customer on the phone. ( I pace and walk around when I talk) My wife was leaving the house to go somewhere and after she walked by me and quietly waved and said goodbye I put the guy on mute and yelled out to my wife YOU ARE HOT! After she replied with her comments we laughed! The obvious is I had zero expectations. Nothing has come of it since and she probably doesn’t even recall it because I have moved on to the next hunt. I have told my wife on numerous occasions and even recently as a few days ago. There are women who would love to be chased by their husbands. It would be fun to have it reversed. Anyway…these things Shiela wrote about today do work. I have tried them all. In my relationship with my wife the weird thing is sometimes it works and everything is just fine and other times it is like I am asking her to swing from the ceiling fan or something lol. Fishing is called fishing because if it were called catching it would mean it is because you always catch stuff. Sex in marriage is similar to fishing sometimes. You have to throw the bait and wait lol.
I love the fishing analogy, Phil 🙂
I agree, that was a great analogy ☺️ It can’t apply to everyone (because there are some spouses who are abusive and some situations that are very tough), but having resiliency, optimism and a “ tomorrow is another day” approach to marriage and intimacy can help a lot.
I believe many men don’t initiate because they have learned that it will likely go nowhere. There is few things in life that are worse than being rejected by your wife. It impacts your thoughts for days afterwards.
Follower of christ: asking and trying gets old when it never goes anywhere. I agree with you.
I’m exhausted! 25 years of wooing and pampering and “nice kissing” and hand-holding and massage and texting/calling and prayer and patience and acceptance and my tank is dry. I’m spent and weary and STILL haven’t experienced, “the joy of marriage.” But, I’m appreciative of this community.
I have had this problem for thirty years now. My attempts always end up with a fight, keeping in mind I follow all the tips mentioned here. Today was our anniversary and we had a fight when I even tried to get closer. It started with a text message, waited for her at home and met her at the door giving her a hug and a kiss. She pushed me away and said she was hungry. I made her food and brought it for her. She spent more than an hour eating alone. I came closer when she came to lie on the couch but she pushed away. She said I wish you only sit next to me. I did. Two minutes later she grabbed her phone to talk to her friends and check Facebook. We had a fight and that was our anniversary. This is very common almost every time I try to reach out. I could not give her the gift and flowers I prepared for her I could not even wish her a happy anniversary.
What advice do you have for me?
Do you only do those things when you want sex? Or do you do those things out of love? There’s a big difference to me. I feels like when my husband does for me he expects payment and that is usually sex. Makes me not even want to acknowledge his help, which caused him to feel like I don’t appreciate it. It is a vicious cycle here. The last 2 days he as beenthe house has been clean the yard tended and at bedtime was doing off and his words to woo me were “well we better do this before you get good and asleep” so I did my deed and guess what he is laying in there snoring while I’m up getting ready for work. Let me ad he is retired and I’m am an assistant manager at a salon, manager is on vacation. We have been shorthanded so I’ve been working 10-12 hour nonstop days getting getting America beautiful for the holidays. I’m exhausted. I walk-in the house just wanting to relax. Anyways what I’m saying is that if you only go the extra mile for your lady for sex, then your extra mile it’s not a turn on at all. Or that’s what’s going on at this house anyways. My advice to all is look and see what your spouse need then do that out of love not for something in return. Now that’s a turn on.
I’m really sorry that you are experiencing all of this in your relationship. At this point, I believe you should bring in a third party to help you both figure out what is going on. There’s no shame in that, it doesn’t mean you’re doing something bad or that you want someone to gang up with you against your wife, it just means something is very wrong between the two of you and you need help to find it and fix it. But do find a good counselor! A bad counselor will just be wasting your time and making things worse.
Tim, I agree that if you’re not already pursuing it, good counseling is probably the best way forward. I took today’s post as being about a couple where sex is generally good for both of them, the relationship is reasonably solid, and the man is interested in ways that he can learn to initiate without pressuring or causing obligation, or just learning to communicate better.
From your description (which we need to acknowledge is one of two perspectives, the other being your wife’s), my first thought was- do you think your wife likes you? Or loves you? Is it just special occasions where she acts hostile ( some people do get weird about unusual things), or every day? Does she show any signs of caring for you (like being concerned/helpful when you are sick, cooking food you like, etc)?
I have seen couples that somehow have become enemies, either unilaterally or mutually. They show contempt for each other. The love they once had just seems dead. And if it’s that bad, special gestures or gifts or dinners likely won’t heal it. If counseling is not an option, perhaps reading some books by a respected marriage researcher like John Gottman would be an alternative?
Well, I will say that there are few things in life more humiliating than being rejected by your HUSBAND. Rejection hurts wherever it is encountered. What has been important for me is figuring out whether it was something I did or something he was feeling.
Flip side: it “goes nowhere” for me because sex is a pile of garbage.
I’m going to give a different answer to the question “Do you want to watch me eat delicious chocolate cake while you are served some dry, rotted crumbs” than to the question “Do you want to share a piece of delicious chocolate cake and I’m not eating until you’re happy?”.
Gracious, Jane Eyre.
If you feel like “sex is a pile of garbage” why are allocating your time to a blog and corresponding discussion about sex?
That’s a great question, Greta. Especially considering asexual ladies like Perfect Number have told us they enjoy sex.
Sounds like maybe JE would be better served to take her negativity towards such a beautiful gift to a different blog.
Jane Eyre has actually been an important part of this community, for many years. And she’s made some really interesting comments that I’ve even put into some books. She’s had some really bad experiences with sex, but her insights are worth listening to on many things.
Actually in the asexual community, most people do not ever want to have sex- I’m kind of unusual in this sense. I 100% support everyone’s right to not have sex/ not like sex/ not be interested in sex- if that’s how they feel, that’s valid (whether they’re asexual, or any other reason at all). I don’t think liking sex is inherently better than not liking sex- it is a personal choice and everyone should choose what’s right for their own situation.
Duly noted, Diana. The problem isn’t my husband depriving me of a “beautiful gift;” the problem is me looking at rotted food and emphatically stating it is hardly the same thing as healthy food.
As revoir, Bare Marriage.
This comment is perilously close to “only healthy people ought to be here.”
I’ve been here long enough to know some of Jane Eyre’s story, and I can assure you she needs all the support we can provide.
Because it reminds me that the sex I can have with my husband – where he does not listen to what I say, does not learn how to please me, continually performs actions that are painful, and expects me to operate like a man – is actually not healthy, Christian, or loving.
But thanks for letting me know I’m the problem. That’s super helpful.
I’m really so sorry, Jane. You totally do not have to submit to one-sided sex that hurts. You absolutely don’t have to.
Jane Eyre,
I really value things you’ve shared before (and love your pseudonym). You’ve put me to thinking on several things in different ways which has been great.
Honestly, when others share their deep hurts here, I feel it just shows how much damage has been caused and emphasizes the importance of the work that Bare Marriage team is doing.
I hope you will continue to participate in this community. And I hope you know your great worth. 💗
Yes, I completely second this! I sent Jane Eyre an email to apologize personally because I should have deleted the comment, and instead I replied to it because I thought it could be a learning tool to know that there are other things going on we may not see in a single comment. But it was wrong of me to do that at Jane’s expense.
Replying to Nessies comment below this one (there wasn’t a reply box after her comment):
Glad you raised the issue of deep hurts. There are many of us who have also suffered deep hurts from our husbands denying sex to us for long periods of time. Using sex as a punishment or reward based on whether we earn it by our behavior versus making it mutually, consistently available.
Our deep hurts from that are no less valid than other hurts. Bloggers describing sex as a “pile of garbage” is not constructive and damaging, especially on a blog where people are longing for the beautiful gift of sex in their marriage and are seeking encouragement.
Regardless of how long they have participated on the blog.
Greta, it’s unkind to expect that everyone here has had great sexual experiences.
I know for a fact that Jane Eyre has endured more pregnancies than orgasms (zero at last count), that her husband refuses to listen to her in bed, and that he has zero regard for her experiences because he’s only focused on his own.
Sex SHOULD be beautiful, but there’s no use in pretending that there aren’t marriages where it absolutely SUCKS for the wives. Wives who are wondering what’s wrong with them find validation in hearing about other women’s terrible experiences. It also helps alleviate feelings that a woman is crazy to feel the way she does about sex.
Jane Eyre’s analogies to rotten food are right on point. She’s not merely having to eat Chinese when she wants Italian. She’s being presented with rotten, foul, stench-ful crap and told she ought to enjoy it and BE GRATEFUL FOR GOD’S “GIFT.”
You make a good point. Is your partner inviting you to have good sex together that you both enjoy, or just wanting you to be there so he can have his pleasure and move on? Sounds like that’s what’s happening for some commenters.
FollowerOfChrist … Have you wondered what your wife’s version of that same lament is? What is she weary of being denied to the point of being deeply affected? Does she receive the other kinds of intimacy from you? Are you vulnerable with her (not referring to the vulnerability of being refused sex)? Does she trust you with her vulnerable places? Do you practice compassion and empathy, do you listen so she feels heard, do you care about what she cares about? Is she carrying the bulk of the physical and mental load of your shared life? Are you in relationship with *her … as a person you value, appreciate, admire? Sexual intimacy is the overflow of these things. Sheila’s list above is the relational equivalent of one’s physical daily care like brushing your teeth, showering, eating when you’re hungry, … the things one does because they matter to our overall wellbeing. These matter to the sex part of marriage but sex is not the holy grail of marriage (relationship is … trust me if you’re in right relationship then sex is the byproduct). Sheila’s list is the culmination of engaging when the rest of your relationship is already healthy and safe and mutual. The list I offered above is like keeping gas in your car … but as the driver you still have to think and function and steer and brake (Sheila’s list above).
Repeat … don’t focus on what you’re not getting (sex), ask yourself, and your wife, what she’s not getting out of the marriage (hint: not so you can have more sex, but so you can be a decent human to the rest of the person you want to put your body into)
Lastly, and I say this as gently as possible, if being turned down has that much of an impact on you then I strongly urge you to work with someone trained who can help you explore the hidden deficits (or possibly traumas) in your life that are making this one have more mental and emotional impact than it should. At the very least consider that there’s more to this problem than your being denied and how hard that is for you.
(all of the above is offered sincerely, without bitterness or sarcasm)
I have a quick question about #5: what are your thoughts on praying together while dating? My girlfriend and I try to pray together every day, and while it brings us closer to God it also brings us closer to one another. Do you have any suggestions for ensuring that we don’t cross any physical boundaries after we pray together? Me and her want to get closer to God but we also want to be wise about not getting too close with one another too quickly.
I actually wrote a post on that that I’m planning on rerunning soon! I’m glad you brought that up, because I don’t think people realize how intimate praying is, and how much THAT is the reason that a lot of people cross physical boundaries.
I’d just say pray together, yes, but do so in less of a private place. 🙂
Husbands, these are good tips to avoid coming on too strong. BUT, if your initiation is weak, needy or shaming, you will never turn her on. Be solid.
What does weak mean in this situation?
My wife has never initiated sex, but her philosophy is if you cannot romance me, then nothing doing. She panics and has mental problems, bc our son died 7 yrs ago of cancer and she got Adrenal Fatigue (a disease that causes suicide in extreme cases) and PTSD. I believe she has always had thyroid issues, bc the problem’s always been there. She is still sleeping on the couch after 7 yrs. Can’t afford a doctor for her or counseling. We’re very poor by western standards.
Robert, I don’t know what resources are available in your area, but you might try community health agencies. They can often provide counseling and other care on a sliding pay scale, which is very helpful. I pray for healing for both of you.
Robert, I am truly sorry for your loss and the pain you and your wife continue to go through. Please do not take this as saying that you have to “fix” your wife or convince her to accept help, but there truly is help available outside our broken medical and mental health system. I would encourage you to look for something where you can get support, and invite her to join you- it could be a grief support group, particularly focusing on parents who have lost a child. If she has been diagnosed with or you suspect PTSD, depression, panic attacks etc- please check out NAMI (National alliance on mental illness). They have wonderful in-person and online resources, they are free, and they provide true advocacy from the perspective of others who have walked in your shoes, people who have a loved one living with mental illness. If a doctor prescribes a medication you can’t afford, many pharmaceutical companies will work directly with you for a lower price. If she has a specific diagnosis of a disease, there is likely some kind of online support community for fellow sufferers and their families. I hope knowing that others care will help you with whatever you need to do next, for yourself but also for your wife.
I personally think that the biggest thing will be reading the non-verbal cues. I think there are “barometers” of feelings. Find the barometer, read it, bingo bango, you know how she’s feeling and you know what she needs next. It might be obscure, but I am almost certain that women (at large) do actually have one.
For example, my barometer is the towels. Hang with me here. Generally I will fold the towels “hotel style” (no edges showing). And that means that I am happy, content, and kind of “playing house”. If that tips over into “I have just reorganised the airing cupboard”, then I need more adventure, creativity and romance in my life, and will love you forever if you bring it to me. If the towels are folded in the airing cupboard but not hotel style… I’m feeling inadequate. Not up to doing it “properly”. In that case, talk to me. Be my best friend. If the towels are still in the tumble dryer or a laundry basket… I am busy, heading towards overwhelm. I’ll be forever grateful if you take some burdens off me. But probably just ask, “what can I do that will be useful?” If the towels are just shoved into the airing cupboard not folded… I am panicking. Looking for a quick fix. And also feeling inadequate. Consider this “the edge” (as in, “I am dangerously close to the edge”). And if there is not a clean towel to be found, then I am outside of the usual realm, I have gone over the edge and can’t just ‘come back’, I am Not OK. And I can’t think clearly about what I need/what would be useful. And I will need you to do it for me. Give me a direct order. (A benevolent one, of course.) But if I am Not OK, this probably won’t be your first clue. But it will be for some of the other things.
Now, your wife may — probably will — have a different barometer than I do. But I am almost certain that she will have one. If there’s any “little” thing that she gets particularly snippy or defensive about, chances are that’s halfway there to finding it. (For example, I would get waaaay more snippy (or angry but trying to contain myself) about the towels than I would about, say, dishes or vacuuming. Which is why I said to ask what would be useful when I’m busy. Putting the towels away “for” me would actually be the opposite of helpful, but doing the dishes or vacuuming — or even putting away other laundry — would be great, y’know?) * But directly asking about it is going to make her feel self conscious — not in saying it, but next time she comes to do it. She’ll be facing the temptation to manipulate you, and you’ll never know for sure whether or not she’s being passive aggressive. Best to find it on your own if you can.
If that sounds an impossible task, ask yourself this: could you do it for an animal? Could you tell if an animal was hungry or sad or in pain or overexcited or etc? Because if you can do it for an animal, you can do it for your own wife who is the same species and speaks the same language as you. That’s where the word “husband” comes from — from animal husbandry. From being so well acquainted with the animal(s) that you’re able to tell exactly what they need. Even when they can’t tell you. And this is the word we have chosen to represent the way a man cares for his beloved. That has to be important.
* I don’t know if men have such an obvious barometer. I haven’t found it in any if they do. Given what I said about husbandry, perhaps not? idk.
Phil is on point! I wish he could talk to my husband. I surprised my husband with tickets to The 5 Love Languages seminar 10 yrs ago after I had bought the book thinking this would provide the “aha” moment. Nope, he said it was non-sense & nobody should need affirmation, acts of service, gifts, etc to feel loved. I should add my hubby is an engineer & fits the stereotype of being extremely intelligent & very “black & white” in how he tackles issues. Sooo….after nearly 20 years of marriage, I am not sure where to go from here. I did coax him to take the test. He’s Physical Touch & I am Words of Affirmation. It’s a wonder how we’ve made it this far…neither of us speak the other’s love language. I even have Sheila’s Good Girl guide that I cannot even get past the first few pages with my husband. What’s wrong with me?
Nothing is wrong with you! But I wonder if your husband is neurodivergent. (Nothing wrong with that either.) And if he is, he needs to learn a few things about emotional connection. But if he is not open to even *trying* to understand you, well, there are bigger issues.
At a Loss – has your husband been evaluated for Autism Spectrum Disorder (Or Asperger’s)? My husband and I have been married for 22 years, he is also an engineer, physical touch (but has sensory issues, too) and we also can’t make it past the first chapter of the book. We recently had an epiphany as we looked into the possibility of him having Autism. It would explain so much. It doesn’t solve anything. But it points us towards resources, and explains why traditional support systems don’t work for our relationship.
Even Sheila’s advice, although amazing, misses the mark for my husband. This article doesn’t describe how my husband would interact with me At. All. Even at the best of times. And it has nothing to do with intent. We are working with a couple’s counselor trained in working with neurodivergent couples. We’re hoping to see progress. But it was missed for decades.
Aside from the first two, the list sounds an awful lot more like “Here are some basic, rock-bottom minimum things to do to maintain the relationship” as opposed to “Here are things to do to get your wife interested in sex tonight.”
If talking to his wife, asking about her day, asking what’s the big thing on her mind, and giving her a no-obligation-strings-attached kiss are simply indicators of his interest in sex, then it REEEEEAAALLLLY sounds like he doesn’t have to do those things on “ordinary” days. 🤔
Yeah I kinda agree…. I have a responsive libido and I’m trying to help my husband know how to look for cues that I COULD get interested… but it wouldn’t be because he texted me earlier. Some touch in bed and see how I respond… like don’t get all mad if I don’t get super into it but look for cues to keep going or kiss goodnight.
Thanks MJ, I think responsive desire is a key part of this discussion. I agree that “like don’t get all mad if I don’t get super into it” is a perfectly reasonable request, but as a spontaneous high libido spouse, can I suggest an analogy, as has proved helpful to me elsewhere on these comments.
Imagine that you were going on a weekend away (spa, hiking … whatever you really enjoy) with a few of your best friends and you were really looking forward to it. As you arrive at the hotel and start checking in, you discover that somehow the booking didn’t work (e.g. booked for the wrong dates) and the hotel is now full. So there’s no choice, but to turn around and go home again. So it is entirely reasonable to not get mad at whoever made the mistake, it is also reasonable to feel very disappointed and deflated and start to wonder “what am I going to do this weekend now?”. If a close friend made the booking mistake, it is extremely hard to hide your disappointment from them, because they know you really well.
Just to be clear, by the use of the word “mistake” in the above analogy, I am in no way invalidating your choice in a sexual situation to say “no” at any stage, for whatever reason. That is an absolute requirement, if subsequent sexual activity is to be mutually pleasurable.
I understand this, John. I think so much depends on the relationship. Like, if she enjoys sex from the get-go because he focuses on her pleasure, and if they have a good marriage where he’s sharing the load, then he’s not really going to be that disappointed if there’s an occasional no because on the whole they have a good sex life together.
If, however, she has never really liked sex because it started off badly for her, and then there was all sorts of obligation thrown in, and it’s become really bad, then as they’re trying to untangle that, he’s going to have to put his disappointment on hold, because that will be super triggering. Because he participated in a dynamic where sex was bad for her, then he also has to participate in a dynamic where she feels really free.
If, on the other hand, their marriage has been good but she’s just been avoiding sex for whatever reason, then I think having a discussion with her about what’s going on and trying to get to the root of it is good.
In an otherwise good marriage where sex is usually great, I think most women understand momentary disappointment. But it’s all about the relationship dynamic.
I agree with this. I consider doing 2-10 daily or near-daily to simply be “the rock-bottom” to be a passably decent husband.
I would also consider it important that I do those things without any thought or expectations that they will ever lead to sex, or any other sort of covert-contract “reciprocity”.
I think that is the point — be a decent husband ALL the time, not just when you expect sex! And realize that if you are not willing to be a decent husband ALL the time, there is no reason why you should expect sex on the few occasions when you do choose to be.
Lisa John’s …
ALL the capital letters … YES.
Decent ALL the time.
Sigh.
Decent humanity. Not transactional, relate relate relate, care about and think about something other than yourself and how much sex you want vs how much you’re getting.
(the ‘yourself’ and ‘you’ above are referring to the one focused on their estimation of sexual deprivation)
I sort of agree. Nothing on the list to me were initiating sex. They were normal ways to behave in a loving relationship. If I thought my husband only did those things to have me possibly receptive to have sex with him I would be upset.
I do loathe when my husband offers a message but really he just wants sex so instead of a relaxing massage before bed it’s a massage then right into foreplay and if I am not in the mood I feel bad for shutting him down because he spent the time to make me feel good. He is normally really aware of my feelings but has let me know that all the physical touch of a massage is very arousing. I had to have a serious conversation that sometime a massage needs to just be a massage and if you offer a massage and are just doing it because you want sex or you think you won’t be able to give a massage without shooting your shot and asking for more then tell me before hand so I can decline. It’s nice to have a massage before bed and just go to sleep. Sex kills that, then I have to get up and do the necessary clean up when I just wanted to relax into sleep.
I agrée about thé massage. Also I find a massage relaxing and not sexual. When I have sex he falls straight off to sleep and I can’t sleep for hours. That may be our biggest problem right now with four young children. I am tired all the time. When we have sex he is all super relaxed and out in minutes. It takes me minimum one hour sometimes longer after sex. He had the gall to tell me the other day that we should have sex more because it makes people sleep better. Ah no. It makes you sleep better. It makes me stay awake and I already have an infant I’m awake with all the time (let alone the other three waking up randomly) and I am exhausted. So no. I don’t like the massage tact because it comes with sex on the end. I’d rather pay for my massage knowing I can relax and sleep after and the only string is money.
Honestly, I think that’s part of the problem in many relationships. I’ll do another post later on how to actually move from excitement to arousal–like how to actually start sex. But for most guys, they’re just looking at how do I connect with my wife so sex may be on the table? And, yeah, it’s pretty basic stuff.
Shouldn’t both spouses (wife and husband) make efforts to do these things for each other? Sure I want my spouse to make the efforts described here both for the good of the relationship and to put me in the mood for sex.
But I’ve always seen our marriage as a two way street where we both seek to serve each other. Lots of articles like this sure make it sound like one spouse has to run on a hamster wheel while the other says when to stop running.
Sheila’s last article about sex being vitally important made more sense to me as it contemplated and described more of a mutual relationship versus this one that seems to make one spouse have to behave a certain way to earn the other spouses affection.
Not how we do our marriage thankfully but to each their own.
Oh, yes, both spouses should do this. But this was specifically a question from a man. And I think the bigger phenomenon that women often send me is that men don’t want to approach their wives unless they know they’re getting sex, and don’t want to pressure their wives, so the emotional labor of all of this is on her. So I’m just showing men what it looks like to share that.
Greta which of the things listed seemed like a “hamster wheel” to you, in all seriousness if your husband is behaving in a loving way towards you, did you really take that to mean only he should behave those ways? Other than code word because personally that weirds me out, women can and do also ask for sex, text throughout the day, compliment him, pray together, talk, ask questions, cuddle, offer a massage, and kiss, these are normal loving ways to interact in a relationship. Both husband and wife should behave in these ways to earn affection.
My problem is that, even when he does try to do these things, it’s because he thinks literally. “If I do x, I get y.” He has said to me that he doesn’t see the point in doing anything differently, because it doesn’t change the result.
The weird part is that he wants sex for the connection it makes him feel, not just for the orgasm. He really does want it to be healthy and lovely for me too. But anytime I express what I need to help me move toward desire, he claims it doesn’t matter because I will probably not want to have sex anyway.
I’m going crazy. (I’m in therapy,he is not. Yet.)
Of course, there’s a lot more to it, but I can’t send him this article. No matter what I say, he’ll read it as a formula.
I’m sorry, Tiff. That is really hard! It sounds like he’s channelled his need for connection into sex and doesn’t know how to connect in other ways.
That’s exactly it. Exactly. He is *this close* to finally getting into therapy to address why that is, as I have explained to him that it’s not normal for him to ONLY feel connected through sex. That any number of things can and should contribute to him feeling connected. Sex being his favorite way to connect is totally fine. But that’s not what this is. And he really doesn’t get it. I wish I could share more, but I don’t feel comfortable doing so in a public forum.
I just read this wonderful post, and feel like I am the exception to all of these, to the point that I respond in an unhealthy way by avoiding nearly all touch, even if and when I *want* touch.
He wants the connection, not the orgasm?
Yeah, sure. If that’s really the case, then give him half or a quarter of the amount of time he needs to orgasm. Then just stop whatever it is you’re doing, cuddle him (or maybe rolling over away from him would be even better) and tell him that you feel so close to him and suggest that he “also got the connection he was seeking, right”?
Men generally cannot fathom sex (meaning any kind of sexual activity) that doesn’t result in his orgasm eventually, so I’m just going to call a bit, fat bull pucky on his statement. (Sorry, not sorry.)
To clarify — it’s not that he wouldn’t care if he didn’t orgasm. Obviously, he does. It’s more along the lines of the act of touching and sex are the ONLY way he feels connected. It makes him feel like “we’re okay,” and nothing else does. It’s hard to explain without sharing things that aren’t mine to share in a public forum. But yes, his perception is that sex and connection are one and the same, rather than things that complement one another.
So was there no non-touching closeness before you got married? No staying up talking till two in the morning? No exploring a hiking trail? No going to the batting cages? Or going fishing? Or trying the new restaurant? Or, or, or?
Does he have no non-touching closeness with his parents? His siblings? Other friends, male and female?
If he can only feel close through touching and he only feels comfortable touching you, that seems like too high a burden for one person—you—to bear alone. It probably won’t be sustainable for you long term, either. 🤔
That’s actually a red flag, and that isn’t psychologically healthy. It means that he can’t be emotionally vulnerable, and so he’s substituting that with being physical. He likely really needs to see a licensed counselor.
The husband writing in shared, “I find that it doesn’t come natural for me to initiate sexual intimacy verbally.”
It can be awkward, and some people really, validly struggle to verbally communicate (speech impediment, etc.). Just because it doesn’t come naturally doesn’t mean we should never bother trying though. If he’s tried it and it just doesn’t work for him/them, ok, it doesn’t work, but I think a lot of guys feel inept with verbal communication because they’ve been “taught” they are.
That was my husband. He’s working on it, and I’m working on meeting him in the middle. But he truly didn’t communicate verbally. For about 2 decades. He felt awkward and unnatural at first but he has improved greatly. He just had to unlearn lots, as did we both in other areas.
My biggest turn-offs: the sloppy, pushy kisses others mentioned (especially when they don’t listen!), the grabs with little/no prompting or “warm-up”, expecting that massages *must* lead to sex, initiating when I’m PMS-ing/cramping (that’s a hard no- learn about your wife please), and pouting/being sullen or mean if the answer is no.
One idea: have a notebook or paper, etc…. George Strait has a song, Check Yes or No. That could be a cute note, though you might add “Maybe- let’s give it a try.”
I think if more guys realized that the more open they were to “maybe” turning into a no later, the more likely “maybe” would turn into yes more often.
Does your reseach have a way of measuring that? Of early-on maybe-to-no’s being met with kindness leading to later on maybe-to-yeses? It makes sense to me because it means she is heard, valued, and loved, but stats on it might be helpful in convincing others.
That was definitely what we heard over and over in our focus groups, when we interviewed women who had regained libidos after not having any. The key was being given the ability to say no. We talk about that in The Great Sex Rescue with several stories!
I guess I was thinking if specific statistics on the “maybe” connection to (early in the marriage nos) and (later in the marriage yeses) libido difference were available, maybe a few more people would pay attention.
Then again, you’ve presented some very clear and specific stats on many other things that have yet to change some minds… 🤦🏾
Yeah, it’s really hard to have specific stats on that because we’re not a longitudinal study and we’re measuring at one point in time, so our focus groups are all we have to go on. It does fit the data from our stats, though. It is tough.
11 – not exactly a “how to initiate sex tonight” step, and definitely advanced past step #3-7 of learning to have an adult relationship, but I’d say… read. Read books about female sexuality written by women. Read books about the female experience in the world.
The whole concept encapsulated in “want her, not just sex”, “talk to her, don’t just grab her body” makes me think about how (generalizing, of course!) it seems like men experience their bodies as part of their self and personhood, whereas women often experience our bodies as something separate from ourselves, almost like a possession. Maybe it’s because we experience more objectification and commodification of our bodies, maybe because our bodies sometimes feel like enemies with the many changes outside of our control. So to understand how a woman might feel when her body is the constant focus, try to imagine you have a guy friend who you suspect is always trying to get something from you- borrow some tools, go fishing in your boat, make an advantageous business connection, stuff like that. Yes, he likes you, but he also likes your stuff. In fact, you suspect he likes your stuff more than he likes you. And maybe he’s not so interested in hanging out if none of your stuff is going to be present for him to avail himself of. Maybe he’s not really there for you that much, except to use it as leverage when he… wants to borrow more stuff or get a favor from you. If you tell him no when he asks, he sulks and pouts, or is sarcastic with you. And the thing is, you happily share what you have with friends, you love to help them out and everything you have is theirs to use, you really love being able to share that… when the friendship is really about your relationship, not your stuff. This is how women can feel when the primary focus is on sex/their bodies.
Wow, JoB, that analogy is really great!!
🔥🔥🔥
Well said!
Very helpful.
Fantastic, Jo…I resonate with all of this! So well said, thank you.
“How do you initiate sex without it feeling like pressure?”
3-10 are normal married life and not really about initiation, so we’re left with 1 or 2. I don’t think it is possible for the higher libido spouse to initiate without pressure. If both husband and wife are low libido and have responsive desire, then it is probably possible to initiate without pressure.
In (most) marriages where one spouse has a higher libido, the only way for them both to be confident they both “honestly want sex” and that neither is pressuring the other, is for the lower libido spouse to initiate. This is especially true if there’s been a history of obligation sex or very one-sided sex.
If there is a mutually agreed schedule for sex, is that considered pressuring? I am guessing it is, so that isn’t an option either.
The low libido spouse can move the kissing to more. But it is still important that the high libido spouse do these things, or else the low libido spouse has nothing to get their libido going with. They’re supposed to create something out of nothing.
Yes exactly. I am assuming that both spouses are doing these things (non-sexual 3 and 4-10) for each other, so yes there is kissing, cuddling, massage (maybe with hope, but certainly without expectation) happening, that the low libido spouse can escalate, if they want to.
The other tricky issue, is that cuddling/kissing in bed (maybe elsewhere?), can often lead to an erection, that is hard (but not impossible) to hide and can be perceived as pressure for sex. That pressure can be mitigated by a prior conversation about it being an indication that I am just enjoying the current situation, rather than it being a demand for sex.
A “prior conversation” is not going to overcome years (decades) of “Christian” teaching to wives that a husband MUST orgasm as soon as possible after he gets an erection to avoid his physical discomfort.
And because women have been taught ad nauseum that his erection means she has to give him that orgasm ASAP, and she realizes that very little—or, indeed, nothing that SHE does—can trigger his erection, then OF COURSE she will avoid doing anything AT ALL that might be such a trigger.
And here we are.
—
Congratulations, church, you’ve just induced self-fulfilling prophecy in millions of God’s daughters: to wit, that women don’t like sex.
Very sadly that’s true.
Yes, I think if you just talk about it beforehand and most importantly, you show in your actions that you can accept a “no”, then it’s honestly okay.
This brings up another key point, I think. That the exact definition of “pressure” can vary depending on the individual. For example, maybe #2 will work for some people, but maybe others will find the notion of directly discussing the topic of sexual desire to be a form of pressure for them.
It really needs to be the prerogative of the lower libido partner to define exactly what pressure looks like to them. And it’s contingent on the higher libido partner to be aware of that and to respect it.
Obviously, husbands need to continue building emotional connection and being decent partners by showing love through things like 3-10. But I certainly understand John’s point that sometimes, it’s possible your partner might just experience ANY suggestion of desire or initiation, no matter how gentle and loving, as pressure.
In that scenario, I certainly empathize that it’s a tricky balancing act to never do anything that your partner might experience as pressure, while also, as Sheila noted, not making them solely responsible for building their own desire.
Honestly, it is so tricky! It can be a minefield.
That’s why I’m so passionate about couples starting well. If, at the very beginning of marriage, the focus is on her pleasure rather than his, then these messes don’t grow in the same way.
i hope more couples start marriage after reading The Good Guy’s Guide and The Good Girl’s Guide to Great Sex. It’s really hard to undo years of bad dynamics.
I certainly wish we’d had those books prior to getting married 😉
My husband and I will be celebrating one month of marriage this week. We were casual friends in college (with secret admiration for each other that didn’t unfold until nearly 10 years later). We dated long distance for 2.5 years before moving to the same town and continuing our relationship into engagement and now marriage.
We did not know how to cultivate a healthy and whole relationship when we first started dating; however, we were fortunate to have my mentor and her husband mentor us for the time we were dating. We also went to individual counseling to unpack and heal childhood trauma and toxic church teachings (mostly on my part), as well as couples counseling to prepare for marriage. We read all of Sheila’s books—and so many others by trusted counselors—and found them to meet our needs in ways we didn’t know would be helpful. We are two imperfect people perfect for each other and rooted in Jesus who is perfect through us.
The beginning of our marriage relationship is stronger than either of us imagined it could be, and we are grateful for the resources we’ve had to guide and support us. My husband cares deeply about my pleasure, and it has been a sweet, God-honoring experience. I care deeply about listening to him and supporting his ideas, which he says has been very encouraging in his life.
Thank you, Sheila (and team), for giving voice to what is biblical and honorable—and paving the way for each of us to choose what is good for and to us as individuals and as married couples.
Long-time European (continental) reader here. I am mainly reading because I enjoy the English language and also out of curiosity 🙂 Due to my background I’m probably lacking some understanding of the context of what is discussed on this blog / in this post…
Still, I agree with the other comments made that except no. 1/2 none of this is actually related to the initiation of sex! Nor is any of it, I would argue, even sexual! To talk in a matter of fact or clouded way about your desire to be sexual isn’t sexual in and out of itself! And all the other suggestions aim at the relationship aspect of the marriage. In which I include kissing, cuddling, etc. which to me are just everyday activities to express affection and love (plus, nowadays they do include our children, with whom we DO NOT have any kind of sexual connection!). I have to add that I‘m not from a culture that is very physical on the outside and is rather distant and formal in public live. Nevertheless, in a couple‘s / family‘s relationship the physical connection is an ingrained part of doing live together here. The same applies to praying together, as believers we just do this and it includes the children. All this is to say, that I don‘t see how this helps anyone in having an easier time initiating sex? But maybe I’m missing out on something important?
And to the aspect of pressure – from my point of view that totally seems to be an North American evangelical „fetish“, both for husbands and wifes – one exerting it, one avoiding it… Forgive me, if I’m judging here, but that’s what I have gotten from the discussions here. It’s not something I can relate to from my own background (I do know about other non-European cultures, though, where sexual obligations for / expectations of married women are similarly problematic!).
So, to round it up – the issue to me seems to be the crass divide between (unhealthy) sexual obligations and (healthy) sexual relationships. Get over the former and the latter can develop! And they will look different for each and every couple!
But – this should just be common sense and not something people, male and female, need lengthy education about, both before and after the wedding…! I just wonder what’s going on on the other side of the Atlantic? Where was the wrong turn that in a free and liberated society such dysfunctional dynamics could gain so much ground? I’m honestly shocked about what I read here over and over about both sexes experiences and do ponder what’s the deeper reason??
Yes, I think your diagnosis is right on. There is something deeply, deeply wrong with how evangelicalism has taught sex, so that this even needs to be said. It’s truly sad.
I agree completely, Anon25.
Going out on regular dates builds intimacy. What I don’t like is this “quid pro quo” mindset that expects sex in return at the end of the date. If it happens organically, that’s great. But if it’s a set expectation, that’s pressuring.
I’m going to put in a plug for flirting. This only works in a healthy relationship. (If the relationship is not fully healthy, then I think the best is to be direct in asking about sex, to avoid misunderstandings.)
There’s no one best way to flirt. Everyone knows what works best for their partner/spouse. Just like people have unique love languages, they have unique flirting languages. And couples develop their own personal flirting cues, too. It might be words, looks, gestures, texts, pictures, clothes, movements…heck, for me it’s when his voice drops an octave and goes all velvety that I totally melt. The important thing is that flirting only works when the underlying relationship is healthy and when the couple is attentive to what makes their partner melt (or not). What one person finds gets them all gooey inside, someone else will find totally offensive.
But when the foundation is healthy, then starting with some gentle flirting is a way to let your spouse know you’re interested. And based on how they respond, you’ll know if the answer is “right now” or “in a bit” or “not today” but usually, the flirting is fun no matter how far it goes. And in a healthy relationship, there’s no need to worry if you only get to first base or get tagged out at third or hit a thrilling home run. Because you’re playing on the home field 🙂 You both get to come back and play again on familiar ground, whenever you like. The play and tease of consensual flirting is a lot of fun, no matter how it ends. And it’s a very effective way both for a husband to show interest in sex, and for wives to take it however far around the bases they want – or vice versa.
Among the questions I have is how to square what I read here – which does make a lot of sense, by the way – with the advice one reads that “scheduled sex” is a good idea if one is dealing with a very-low or no-sex relationship. Obviously that isn’t going to work if the wife has become truly turned off by sex, as mine often has seemed to be post-menopause. So I mention the idea every once in a while “what if we made an effort to have sex once a month?” but never have followed with anything like a schedule because that seems so forced. Then again, the idea seems to be that maybe that will work if one approaches in the right way for a wife who has always been on the lower-libido and and always responsive. I never entirely give up. In our marriage from a non-sexual point-of-view I would say things are mostly better now between us then they were earlier on in the marriage (we were married in 2002, me 38, her 41, and have one child). We have talked about it some and she chalks it up to biologically going from low-ish libido to almost no libido and not to anything I have done – but maybe she is leaving something out because its easier to do so, What bothers me is that she treats it as a nothing – but it isn’t nothing to me and it makes very sad if I think about this being the end of any more sex in our marriage period to the end of our lives — me 59 her 62 — so maybe we have 25 more years.
That is really hard, Humphrey. And honestly–women post-menopausal can still enjoy sex. I think it’s okay to say to her, “I really want a passionate life with you, and I feel like we’re missing out on so much. Can we talk about where we go from here?” Make it about what you both are missing out on, not just what you want? That can help. Did she enjoy sex when she was having it?
I’m a husband who always thought of earning sex or deserving sex. I realize this the wrong thought process to have or foster. I am working on purging this from my mind. As normal I have a higher libido than my wife. I love my wife very much and love the connection that only sex can bring. Like most husbands I would love more connecting and sex. I have pressured my wife in past and regret it. When I pressured it was mostly out of frustration of at lack of sex.
After reading the ten ways to not pressure this is what I hear……I need to do everything a good husband should do and more. Then through the course these actions my wife may actually be moving closer to desiring sex. It is up to me to work through myriad of combinations to move closer to sex without her sensing any pressure. If I ever preform any of the actions with the end goal being sex, then it’s for the wrong reasons.
It’s interesting to me how many of us are struggling with similar things and how common these issues are. I feel for me, sex has been weaponised (nagging, guilt-trips, not being aloud to sleep until I cave etc) and like Jane Eyre I have had more children than orgasms too. Sex has been more a duty than a pleasure in my life, to the point where I would be quite happy to never have sex again. I have a husband who says the same things time after time to the point where it seems like a catchphrase and I feel I repeat myself each time as to how that is not a turn on and after 20+ years I am more than over it. Now we have sex only so I don’t have to be nagged until I cave. This is NOT God’s design and yet we are both God-loving Christians. I don’t agree with divorce but I also don’t believe this is what God had in mind when He designed marriage. I no longer have the energy or inclination to bother ‘working on the marriage’ as the things I’ve been saying for years have not been heard, let alone anything new.