Sometimes the way that Christian resources talk about sexual coercion and abuse makes me want to cry.
When writing The Great Sex Rescue, we read the 10 bestselling marriage books (we excluded 3 because they didn’t talk enough about sex) and 6 iconic sex books. Of the 13 books that we looked at, not a single one used the word consent in the context of marital rape or coercion.
In fact, some even made rape seem like not a big deal (and hence my dedication to Aunt Matilda, from Tim LaHaye’s Act of Marriage).
Well, on Instagram and Facebook I like to put up “Fixed It For You”s where I take a quote from a Christian book and I “fix” it so that it’s no longer toxic.
I get amazing feedback on these, and people keep asking me to do more (so if you have any sentences you want me to fix, let me know!).
You can browse them on my Instagram profile, and I’ve done other posts featuring these. But I thought today I’d run my five most recent ones, which, as I look back over them, seem to have a common theme–coercion.
I was supposed to launch our sexual confidence series today–the post is almost done! Truly!. But I got carried away with all the responses to yesterday’s announcement about Gary Thomas, especially on social media. So thank you for your support! We’re also starting the drive home from New Brunswick today, and we had to get up and leave super early. So the sexual confidence post will likely come on Friday!
Okay, on the Fixed it For Yous! Let’s start with this one from John Piper, which went huge (and for each image, if you click on it it will take you to Instagram where you can also read the long comment that I put up with each quote! It’s often more nuanced that my simple “fix”):
If you want to see the context of this quote, find it here. He later did try to clarify his remarks, but he never apologized or told women that they didn’t need to go to the elders–and John Piper’s church, Bethlehem Baptist, has excommunicated women who left their abusive husbands.
But let’s turn to sexual coercion.
What do our resources say about rape?
Well, according to Every Heart Restored, a book from the Every Man’s Battle series by Steve Arterburn and Fred Stoeker, there’s an acceptable quota. He’s allowed to coerce you once a day, but beyond that it’s too much.
What about advice to teens about abuse and sexual coercion?
Here’s where things get even sadder to me. Rebecca and I have spoken about the problems with the book For Young Women Only before on the podcast, and we addressed this particular quote when we looked at how Christian books make men seem fragile.But here Shaunti Feldhahn is telling teenage girls that if a boy is angry at her, it’s likely because she disrespected him.
Think about that: she is telling girls that one of the main red flags of an abusive relationship is actually her fault, and she should internalize the blame for it. Holy cow.
Now let’s get into what Shaunti tells girls about date rape.
In her book, she talks about her survey where, according to her, 82% of boys said they had little ability and felt little responsibility to stop teh sexual progression. We’ve taken apart that survey question line by line, but think about the implications of this original quote. That’s horrifying.
What’s her most precious treasure?
Let’s end with the biggest one so far, that got the most likes on Instagram. It’s not about coercion per se, but rather straight from purity culture, where a couple has sex–but only she is to blame.
In Chapter 4 of The Great Sex Rescue we looked at how messages like this one–that a girl is responsible for being the gatekeeper, because he can’t help himself–end up seriously hurting her ability to get aroused once she gets married–and we walk you through step by step how to overcome this.
Jesus doesn’t kill the soul, but messages like these do.
Will you continue to speak up with me? Will you continue to ask Christian resources to do better than this–and to stop using any Christian resources that spread messages like these?
When we start speaking up and when we refuse to accept these, then we’ll raise the bar, and stuff like this will no longer be able to be said.
The Great Sex Rescue
Changing the conversation about sex & marriage in the evangelical church.
What if you’re NOT the problem with your sex life?
What if the things that you’ve been taught have messed things up–and what if there’s a way to escape these messages?
Welcome to the Great Sex Rescue.
Which one horrified you the most? Have a quote you’d like me to “fix”? Let me know in the comments!
(Also, Connor is doing a lot of technical work on the blog today to try to fix some glitches with the comments. If you leave a comment this afternoon, and it disappears, sorry about that! But we should be good for most of the day!).
Sheila Wray Gregoire
Founder of To Love, Honor and Vacuum
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I find the quotes from ‘For Young Women Only’ the most troubling – if you teach very young girls who are just starting to date that a) they are ALWAYS responsible for their boyfriend’s anger and b) they are ALWAYS responsible for a guy sexually assaulting them, how can you expect them to make wise choices about who they marry? They are being trained from an early age to view abuse and violence as simply ‘part of being a man’, so they are not going to realise that these are huge red flags which should cross any guy off the ‘potential boyfriend’ list.
Comments like Piper’s, that enable/support domestic abuse are also horrifying – but if girls hadn’t already been trained to view abuse & violence from men as ‘normal’, I suspect we wouldn’t be seeing so many women trapped in abusive marriages. So often, the warning signs were there in the dating relationship, but the woman had swallowed the lie that those red flags were ‘just the male nature’.
Very true.
I internalised that male anger was a sign that I had overstepped the mark. I don’t know where from as I’ve never read Shaunti’s book. However I notice that in this quote, she isn’t even talking about boyfriends. She’s saying that if any boy is angry with a girl, it’s the girl’s fault. I’m just coming to realise the damage this view did to me, and the guilt I carried needlessly for years for other people’s (men’s) sinful anger. Anger that came from them being selfish and disliking not having exactly what they wanted, when they wanted it. None of this was in romantic or family relationships. And now I am angry and grieving, but I am also seeing a licensed therapist and trusting that God will bring me through this.
I’m so sorry, Hannah. I hope the counselor really helps you! I internalized this a lot, too. And, yes, Shaunti was just talking about boys in general. We are responsible for men’s and boys’ feelings. It’s really scary and does affect us.
The reason the damaging messages in these books don’t get picked up is because they are so widely taught that most people have absorbed them before they actually read the book. A couple of years back, I probably would have read that quote and not thought it was wrong, because the message I received from my earliest years was that male bad behaviour was always a female’s fault (it’s not just in church – take a look at the social media comments on any media report of a male on female sexual or physical assault, and it will be full of ‘what had she said to him?’, ‘what was she wearing?’ ‘why was she even there at that time in the morning?’ type comments)
I didn’t read any dating/relationship books until I was past 40, but I absorbed pretty much all these messages, primarily from casual conversations with older women in church – one generation passing on poor teaching to the next.
For books by Christian authors aimed at Christian readers, how are these books showing both men and women what it looks like for husbands to love their wives as Christ loves the church?
If we’re going to beat Ephesians 5 into women’s heads, then we need to beat the men with their bit of that chapter as well.
These books do not model or describe proper male behavior, and the authors excusing this unChristian and in many cases illegal behavior with the beyond lame “this is just how men are” ought to be ashamed. We need to bring back the pillory in the public square—or, better, into the sanctuary.
Can you please make more of these?
Usually i find fixed it for you to not be done well, but this is actually pretty good.
Follow me on Instagram! i always put them up there first. 🙂
The John Piper quote regarding abuse does not surprise me. He has also stated he would rather his wife and children be murdered than risk sending the perpetrator to hell through the use of deadly force to defend them.
Wait what? I thought Christian head husbands were the courageous strong protectors of their meek gentle submissive wives… My brain hurts.
They are all horrifying, and it’s discouraging how familiar they are. When reading through these I always read the original first, then the fix, and it’s not until I read the fix that I can fully state what’s wrong. These ideas are deeply ingrained. The worst for me, though, is the woman giving away her treasure. It’s the most painful because my husband and I are working through problems after 27 years of marriage, and I still find myself wondering how he could hurt me when I gave myself to him. It somehow implies an ownership that makes me a victim instead of the independent, educated woman I am. My husband doesn’t think this way, so I know it’s coming from all of the messages I heard about my body defining my value.
Please do Gary Thomas next! I see that his book was officially released just yesterday, so it’s perfect timing.
Regarding Shaunti Feldhahn, I wrote that comment previously about her as a double agent of the patriarchy and women who do that make me angrier than the men, but then I can’t help but wonder what her dating life and marriage have been like. She does no research or only does faulty research, so it’s all just based on personal experience and, like the male authors telling on themselves about just how bad in bed they are, I wonder if she’s experienced date rape and spent her entire adult life dealing with it by putting other young women in danger instead of seeking help for herself. I read somewhere that people will blame themselves for things they were powerless to control precisely because blame gives them a sense of control, it means it could have turned out differently. I’m not saying any of this to justify her or even try to garner sympathy for her, just attempting to understand what would cause a woman to publish things that hurt her own sisters.
I’ve had thoughts like that about many authors too. It’s likely not wise to speculate publicly, though. but I hear you.
I’ve wondered that, too!! In addition to self-blame and a false sense of control, there’s pride that comes from thinking, “I’m more submissive than THOSE women.” As much as Shiela’s perspectives feel liberating, they also mean that I don’t get a reward for years of submitting…and that’s difficult to accept, actually. Have I suffered for nothing??!!
I also read about the theory that women who preach male-dominant messages get to be at the top of the 2nd-place group (females, of course males are the 1st-place group). Women who preach equality are below 2nd place, and some women will hurt themselves and others to stay in 2nd place. The recent posts show that Sheila has been pushed below 2nd in the world of famous evangelicals, but we love her bravery ❤️🏆‼️
> > she endures perhaps being smacked one night
I have no words. None.
These are great, as always! Keep up the great work!
What’s really heartbreaking is that it often seems that sometimes, the advice is as bad as (or worse than) the abuse itself.
I’ve read most of Shaunti’s books that pertain to women—the message I largely get is that women are to travel through life in way that is pleasing to men–telling a teenage girl not to get fat, telling women in the workplace specific rules but giving no similar rules to men, telling married women to take care of their appearance but not giving similar advice to men.
I think it so funny that she is worried about teenage girls not being respectful towards boys. What about teenage boys being respectful towards teenage girls?
Eggerichs has a similar creepy message in his mother/son respect book–assuming only sons need respect but not daughters.
I have a young adult son and daughter. I can tell you that teenage boys are not necessarily the most respectful creatures on earth—why aren’t Christian writers emphasizing that both men and women need respect.
I would love to know the answer to your final question!
Speculation, but most likely the people who don’t teach that women and girls need respect don’t believe that women and girls need respect.
If someone tells you who they are…
Literally the only time respect has ever been mentioned to me, has been to rebuke me.
#1 I refused to obey my sister. She ordered me to show her “respect for my elders”, and I didn’t have a clue what it meant. (We were fighting and she wanted domination)
#2 I made a comment against my brother-in-law and my brother told me i wasn’t being respectful.(I was pressured by everyone to make an appology to an abusive guy. We just didn’t know it yet… Fully.)
#3 when I exposed my family members and their words, in exact quotes on Social media, I was being disrespectful. (They never denied the quote… just that I shouldn’t have shared it)
And most recently my mom, when excusing why gary thomas might act like that towards Sheila. Being “respectful towards the other authors”
Respect seems to only come up to execuse bad behavior. And rebuke those complaining.
So I’ve lived my entire life with out using the word respect.
Except in the context of Basic human respect.
Are you up for tackling Christian fiction? I am thinking specifically of Francine Rivers.
I’ve thought about it. I loved The Mark of the Lion (though I should reread it) but I hated And the Shofar Blew. I’m not sure I can emotionally take on a whole new genre right now though!
And it might be hard to find good one-liners to “fix”, I suppose.
I was thinking in particular of the Marta’s Legacy duo. First generation, wife stays with physically abusive husband even though it emotionally destroys at least one of her daughters. Second generation, pregnant wife is literally abandoned by husband; she realizes “the error of her ways” and follows him into pointless physical hardship. Third generation, woman marries the man who continues to “pursue” her in spite of her repeated no, because apparently he knows what’s better for her than she does. Fourth generation, single mother works herself to the bone and successfully builds a life for herself and her daughter (yay!) only to realize she can only be emotionally fulfilled through marriage (huh, what?). Fifth generation, teen girl and her boyfriend together loose their virginity; his life falls apart and she (and his mother) blames herself.
But wait! It is all redeemed in the end because they end up getting married and getting pregnant with a miracle baby…
and then she gets cancer and sacrifices her life for the sake of the baby and this sacrifice is what brings her mother and grandmother reconciliation. Why must a woman’s life be sacrificed in order to bring reconciliation?!
I hear you about The Shofar Blew. Made me never want to marry a pastor. (I think God was poking fun at me, though, because I did end up marrying an ex-pastor. That was a close one.)
Are you specifically thinking of “The Scarlet Thread?” And if I can throw another log on the fire, how about tackling “Inklings” and “Intentions” by Melanie Jeschke? Those books smack of purity culture teaching, I can tell you that.
@Wild Honey, wow. Just wow. I find it hard to believe that the same woman who wrote “The Last Sin Eater” and “Redeeming Love” also wrote that mess. Then again, “The Scarlet Thread” also portrays a toxic relationship, so…
I liked “Redeeming Love” the first time I read it, a long while ago. Then I saw this review (http://samanthapfield.com/reviews/redeeming-love/), went back and re-read the book, and had my jaw drop in shock.
Just a heads-up, the reviewer is a Christian, but I don’t think she can be characterized as conservative or evangelical, if that happens to be the lens you prefer.
Wild Honey, thank you for this. I never realized how much this book tainted and perverted my view of God until I read the review you linked to here. I am going to have to apologize to people I lent this to. I will be thinking about this for some time.
Until I read over that review, I never realized how Redeeming Love does indeed portray an abusive relationship. If you’re looking for a good contrast, try “The Reluctant Duchess” by Roseanna M. White. The heroine of that book has been abused, but the man she marries is patient and kind – he never pushes or abuses her, and he’s also portrayed as realizing that God has been leading him to understand her and what she’s been through.
Wow. Some people trying really hard to baptize rape culture.
These quotes are all gross. The worst ones are the ones from contemporary, in print books. Because those aren’t just the random thoughts of one person. They passed muster with editors at reputable Christian publishing houses. This is what sells in the evangelical world, so they keep promoting it.
The “ask pastor john” one was “just” a blog post, but still so, so bad. I am of the generation that thought his “Don’t waste your life” message was straight out of the mouth of God. Every time I hear another horrible thing he said about women and marriage it makes me sad and angry. He should know better.
John Piper also makes the abuse comments in a video – and the thing I find most chilling about it is that he gives this little giggle just before he says she should put up with being beaten up for one night – it really creeps me out. Like the idea of a woman being physically hurt by her husband is funny.
My grandfather was physically abusive – it was a turn-on for him. And he used to give the same little giggle just before he started in. What is it with ‘Christian’ guys who find the idea of inflicting pain on women ‘amusing’?
Oh dear. I havent seen that and I don’t think I need that in my life :/ I did see a video of Piper in conversation with a younger reformed pastor. They were talking about how they prioritize their ministry to men in their churches and Piper “joked” about them being chauvinists.
It made me angry, but it’s actually good to hear people you once respected showing their true beliefs. If a teacher persistently shows insensitivity to the impact their words have on women, then I as a woman can feel free to stop listening to them. No matter how well they talk up other parts of their theology, I don’t have to take a teacher seriously if they don’t take people like me seriously.
These quotes are horrible, but your fixes are awesome! How about fixing some quotes from Debi Pearl, Created to Be His Help Meet? Here are some awful quotes about sex:
“Her disinterest in him sexually is a reflection of her heart, and he knows it. There are a multitude of excuses women use to explain why they she [sic] would “rather not” or why they “cannot respond” sexually.”
“When you respond halfheartedly, it says to him, “you only have half of my heart.” A halfhearted response from a wife can turn a sweet, teddy bear of a man into a mean, old dog. It can make a man who is high strung morph into an emotional jerk at work, home, and even church.”
“It is a man’s duty to walk in truth and have high integrity, but a woman who trusted a man’s ability to endure all things, while providing circumstances that testing [sic] to the max, is a fool. It is your duty to fill his sexual needs.”
“…when a woman’s first commitment is to her own needs and feelings, she is necessarily going to view sex as strictly a carnal experience, for then she does indeed have an entirely hedonistic outlook – her self-gratification.
But if a woman views sex as a ministry to her husband, then it is a selfless act of benevolence. He need not wait until she is stimulated to desire eroticism; she need only seek to fill her husband’s needs.”
“Don’t talk to me about how uncomfortable or painful it is for you. Do you think your body is special and has special needs? Do you know who created you, and do you know He is the same God who expects you to freely give sex to your husband?”
So, if a wife seeks sexual gratification, it’s carnal and selfish, but if a husband seeks sexual gratification, it’s a God-given need? And she should please her husband even if it’s painful, and when (logically) she loses interest, the problem is with her attitude? And it’s her fault if her husband is a jerk everywhere he goes? This is so wrong!
And her advice for marriage in general isn’t any better:
“Your husband will be selfish. He will be unkind. He will not respect your rights. He will be foolish. He may be cruel, and that son of Adam may actually walk in sin. But he cannot victimize you unless you react outside of the wisdom of God.”
To be fair, this was in the context of her husband not taking out the trash. But what if a wife in an abusive marriage reads this? She will think it’s her fault and do nothing about it! That’s horrible advice.
(I don’t have the actual book but found these quotes online, and I’m not sure if the errors were in the original book or only the website. I’m including the links for your reference, but feel free to remove the first one:
https://walkworthy.org/tag/michael-pearl/
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/01/ctbhhm-how-to-be-an-abused-woman.html)
Oh, this is tremendously helpful! I’m running out of sentences. IF anyone else wants to send me any, from any book you’re concerned about, that would be great! I’ll add this to my spreadsheet.
These quotes make “love and respect” seem healthy. Aren’t the Pearls the people who wrote “parenting” books that advocate spanking babies and similar “discipline” tactics? Perhaps the best “fix” would be to set all their books on fire?
Sheila, this week I was lent the new book, “Mama Bear Apologetics Guide to Sexuality” by Hillary Morgan Ferrer and Amy Davison. I have skimmed the book, and almost every sentence is a problem. Here are a few for you. Remember, this was published in 2021, and actually makes passing reference to “purity culture baggage”. This passage makes me feel physically ill:
Page 235: “Male and female sex drives are different. This has been common knowledge for eons, but it’s now suddenly politically incorrect to say so. Are there some women who have higher than usual sex drives? Sure. But they aren’t the norm. And God bless the men who find them! For the most part, girls, we will *never* understand what our guys go through to remain sexually chaste. Yes, we want to be loved. Yes, we long for touch. Yes, it can feel like we have to chew on a piece of leather to prevent ourselves from going full sex-kitten on the guy we’re dating. But no matter now hard it is for us to maintain self-control, [italics] *we will never fully understand what is going on in our guys’ bodies* [end italics] and the struggle they face to obey God in this area. (continued below)
There is absolutely no science here and no studies quoted, I suppose? wow.
Part 2 to quoting from “Guide to Sexuality” by Ferrer and Davison. This is where it gets even more horrifying.
“So ladies, we need to be kind to our guys, especially the ones who are trying to maintain a faithful witness as disciples of Jesus. And for our guys out there who are trying to not only keep it in their pants but also fend off all the predatory girls who read Teen Vogue, I salute you. Your plight is not easy, especially not in a society where sex is so visible, so prevalent, so easily accessible, and where you are encouraged to “be a man” by disobeying God. You have a cross to cary that most of your sisters in Christ will never understand. You are loved by God and He sees your suffering. [italics] *How can we as a church help you carry this cross?* [end italics]
Oh wow. Wow.
What the….????
Aside from that level of crazy, it astonishes me the lengths people go to to avoid the solution of a man learning to please his wife in bed. No, no, anything but that!
You could run an entire series with a response of: “Or – hear me out, even if this sounds crazy – a husband can learn to please his wife in bed.”
Oh Jane. You must heed this wise blogger’s warning:
“But be forewarned: the demons hate these kinds of books like the Pearl’s and many Christian women and wives will seek vigorously to discredit this work. They care to continue to rule over their husbands, even if they are deceived about it! I’ve seen and heard of Christian women throwing the book across the room, or throwing it away in disgust.
The book must be on to something!”
If you repent of the sin of wanting to be treated like a human being with intrinsic worth and feelings of your own, you’ll realize “your job is being a minister to your husband and to be his totally enthusiastic sex partner, ready to enjoy him at all times.” What godly woman could possibly be so selfish as to expect her husband to learn to give her an orgasm? “Rather, it is in doing her duty to bless him, that a blessing is returned upon her.”
**If anyone can’t tell I am being 1000% sarcastic, but the blogger at the link above who posted a long excerpt from Created to Be His Helpmeet definitely was not. Don’t follow that link to “walkworthy” if you don’t want to read some disturbing stuff.**
CMT, I am not supposed to drink at work and reading that makes me look around for the hard stuff.
Oops Jane I hope you didn’t mean I made you want to drink at work. It was kind of “if I don’t laugh at it I’ll cry,” sorry if I went too far 🙁
I remember reading “For Young Women Only” and “For Young Men Only” (because I’m a rebel and had to read both) when I was in my late teens or early twenties. I ended up wondering why God even created men because if the things Feldhahn said about men were true, then they were animals and women (and the world) would be better off without them. It’s this weird dynamic where women are told their worth and value is dependent on their marriage to men who are basically beasts who need to be obeyed and revered no matter what. It always felt like an impossible choice: singleness (and therefore being an outsider in the church) or marriage (and therefore suffering beneath the rule of a man who sees no need to control his lust or anger). If what Feldhahn (and these other marriage books) say is true, women are screwed either way.
On a separate note, have you ever thought about doing research/writing about singleness and sex? I’m single, and everything I know about sex I learned from my friends in school, smutty romance novels, and Google. People always say weird things about sexuality and singleness (“Your sexuality is not wasted,” etc.) but they’re so vague about everything (because single people aren’t supposed to think about sex) that it never really makes sense to me. I’d love a book about sex that speaks to single women as candidly as your book speaks to married women.
Hi, Ruth. It’s true that not many people talk to single adults about sex. But some have messages for singles, even if we are not their intended audience. I really like Sheila’s Theology of Sex and Marriage section. And any post that has the words “wish I knew this before I got married.”
Funny you should mention that – I’m single and I sent Sheila a message asking what her advice to single women (especially those affected by the purity culture mess) would be. I bet her take would be fantastic.
So…what books would be good guides to teach young men & women about sex and intimacy besides yours which are aimed largely at women or are they? Genuinely asking for resources to help before marriage. Thanks!
We have The Good Guy’s Guide to Great Sex coming out in February! But for right now, I really like The Gift of Sex by the Penners. It scored really well on our rubric.
I am Exhibit A for how these kinds of writings are used by men to emotionally and spiritually abuse women. During marriage, my ex-husband used these writings to justify every other day sex. For me, frequent sex was the way to calm the angry beast because I believed the lie that if I was a better wife, a better Christian, a better something, that he would stop being so angry, selfish, and childish and would maybe then grow into a mature, Biblical man. Despite being divorced for some time now and my repeated “no”, he continues to send me raging messages. He often uses the language from these kinds of writings to justify ignoring my requests to stop. I am so thankful for Sheila (and others) for calling out these Christians for what they are, people who are going against the whole counsel of God when they teach a young man he is somehow not responsible for his own behavior and when they tell a grown man (!) it is okay to terrorize, intimidate, bully and manipulate another adult (let alone when that adult is the man’s wife!)