5 Ways Husbands Can Bridge the “Orgasm Gap”

by | Sep 18, 2024 | Making Sex Feel Good, Men's Corner | 32 comments

5 Ways Husbands Bridge Orgasm Gap

Hi, everyone!

This week we’re talking about orgasm–because it matters!

We spend a lot of time on the blog talking about where teaching has gone wrong and made our marriages and sex lives worse.

But we’ve also created a ton of content, including courses, that teach the right stuff and help you overcome roadblocks and reach the kind of marriage you want.

One of those things is the Orgasm Course, which we talked about a ton when it launched a few years ago, but we haven’t talked about much in a while. And I keep getting messages from women who struggle with orgasm who don’t even realize we have a course!

So we decided to put it on sale this week! When you buy the regular course right now, you’ll get the men’s version FOR FREE–until Monday at midnight.

And the men’s version teaches everything that Keith talks about in today’s post that he wrote for guys–and so much more (like the sexual response cycle, women’s anatomy, and more!)

So read on–and then check out the course while it’s on sale!

Sheila Wray Gregoire

What can husbands do to help their wives reach orgasm more regularly?

Welcome back! It’s Keith here, Sheila’s husband.

This week, the theme is orgasm, obviously an important topic. Why is this such a difficult thing in so many marriages? Why are there so many marriages where she rarely (or never) orgasms?  What can a Christian husband do to rectify this in his own relationship with his wife?

Rather than diving straight in, though, I want to lead into the discussion from a different direction.  It might initially sound like a tangent, but I think it is fundamental to understanding this issue and I am confident you will see why once we get there.

In the past, we’ve received comments on the blog and the Facebook page (please follow our new one since our old one was hacked) about how the problem with lack of sex in Christian marriages was ultimately “women’s selfishness”. This really irked me. At first, I thought it was the fact that it was insulting to women.  I assumed I was just feeling defensive on their behalf. Yes, sometimes women can be selfish, but so can men! And to imply that women are somehow MORE selfish than men is really not something any of us truly believe, is it?. (At least I hope not). Would we husbands accept a statement like “the problem is men’s selfishness” (i.e. if we men stopped wanting sex that would be the best solution)? If not, we shouldn’t be saying the same to our wives either.

But then I realized what truly bugged me about those comments was much deeper.  It was the fact that they were typical of a disturbing thought pattern that I see continuously in Christian marriage teaching –

We have an underlying assumption that sex is basically something for men and not for women. 

To paraphrase the idea, it goes something like this: “Come on, ladies, we know you don’t want to, but it really matters to him, so why can’t you just help him out?” Basically, good Christian women aren’t supposed to enjoy sex, but good Christian men are.

You may think I am exaggerating, but how else do you account for the fact that Emerson Eggerichs, speaking to women in his book Love & Respect, could say “If your husband is typical, he has a need you don’t have (emphasis mine)” and nobody bats an eye. In fact, many Christian marriage books (eg. His Needs Her Needs, The Power of a Praying Wife, etc) talk about how sex is a need for the husband and affection is the correlating need for the wife (as if we both don’t need both!) This thinking is everywhere and it really irks me.

But what does this have to do with orgasm? 

If you think about it, it is pretty obvious.  This week, Sheila has been talking about what women require in order to be able to orgasm. Let’s just consider two points.

First, women need to feel comfortable in their own body and second, they need time to get sufficiently aroused.

It is easy to see how the “sex is for men” mindset can wreak havoc on both of these. Imagine you are a wife who has internalized this message.  How comfortable are you going to feel relaxing, letting go and enjoying this experience which you are “not supposed to like”?  How comfortable are you going to be telling your husband what does and doesn’t feel good?

Or, second, what if you are a husband who has internalized this message? How likely are you to devote the time it takes to “make it happen” for her? If this whole sex thing is for you anyway and “women just want affection”, what is your incentive to get better at bringing her to orgasm? There isn’t one!

The good news is that it doesn’t have to be that way. We can do better than this!

We can completely reject this notion that sex is for us husbands and not for our wives and both have much more satisfying sex lives in the process.

Husbands can bridge that orgasm gap.

There are things we can do as Christian husbands to make sure our wives don’t have to experience the “orgasm gap” Sheila has been talking about.

So, if you want to learn how to rock your wife’s world, read on.

1. Believe that sex was meant to be pleasurable for your wife, too! 

The idea that women can’t enjoy sex is clearly false.  Women do have the capacity to derive great pleasure from sex. They may take longer to warm up, but when they reach orgasm, they can have multiple or prolonged orgasms. They don’t have a refractory period like men, so they can have prolonged, intense enjoyment if things are done right.

Yet in many marriages, wives orgasm far less frequently than their husbands. Resolve not to be one of those marriages! Let your wife know that her pleasure matters to you with your words and your actions. So many women email Sheila asking how to talk to their husbands about the fact that they are always “left hanging”.  Don’t be one of those relationships.

2. Avoid the “obligation sex” message at all costs. 

People can be guilted into things fairly easily (depending on the person of course), and women are no exception. However, people are never going to truly enjoy something if their underlying motivation to participate is guilt.

Guys, you need to realize that so many women feel this overwhelming sense of guilt about sex. It’s like a lead straight-jacket for them.  They fear if they are not sexually available that their husbands will stray or watch pornography. They feel like they have a duty to perform because – as I said above – they have been taught that repeatedly.

How can they possibly enjoy sex if that is why they are doing it in the first place?

If you truly recognize that sex is meant to be enjoyable for your wife as well, you will do your level best to get rid of any sense of obligation in your sex life. She needs to know that you will love her and be faithful to her no matter what. Only when she knows she is safe can she really be free to experience her own sexuality with you. This is really easy to mess up without knowing.  For instance, a commenter once noted how, after she had had a sexual encounter with her husband where she DID orgasm, he asked her “So why don’t you want to do this all the time?”. I am pretty sure he didn’t intend to lay a guilt trip on her, but I am 99.9% sure that he was clueless enough not to realize that’s what he actually did!

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3. Don’t expect your wife’s sexuality to be the same as yours.

We sometimes assume that  if our wives don’t experience sexuality the same way we do, that something is wrong with them or with us or maybe both.

For instance, let’s consider time from initiation of sex to orgasm. If you have decided “Tonight’s the night” for her and you are not aware of (or don’t appreciate) the fact that women take considerably longer than men, you may start sending her signals about why this is taking “so long” once you get past the point that this would already be over for you. Hopefully you would never say that out loud (although sadly, Sheila does get emails from women whose husbands have said just that), but trust me, if you are thinking it, she will pick up on it.  She might even say it before you do! (Remember the guilt straight-jacket I talked about earlier?).

Instead, you should recognize and appreciate that women see sex differently than men and that is not a bad thing. One of the recurring themes in Sheila’s writing is that husbands who are great lovers help their wife feel that they have all the time in the world for them. Enjoy the moment instead of sprinting for the finish line. See sex as more than intercourse. Aim to have the experience be mutually enjoyable by making it stress-free and deadline-free.

4. Remember that sex is meant to be mutual and to be intimate, more than just a physical release.

Sadly, however, sex is quite often presented in exactly those kind of transactional terms, even within the church. This is not a godly view of sex, but an incredibly worldly one.  I might upset some of you, but I think it could be said that it is basically a pornographic view of sex. 

What I mean is this: Pornography is all about pleasure and taking that from another person rather than about relationship and mutuality.  It is ultimately about one person using another rather than two people experiencing true intimacy.  I think this way of thinking about sex has crept in more than we would like to realize.  In contrast, Sheila has shown in many posts how the Biblical perspective differs from this and Is centred around true intimacy and mutuality.  The word “know” is used in Scripture repeatedly to denote sexual relations (as in “Adam knew his wife, Eve”).  This is not a euphemism. God doesn’t need to speak in code words about what He has created. This is meant to tell us that although sex may be physical it is also more than that, something deeply intimate and personal and – it seems clear to me – also mutual.

It’s okay to have “his” nights and “her” nights once in a while, for sure, but if you are in a relationship where sex is mostly one sided or is all about the physical, you are missing out on the much deeper level of intimacy that God intend sex to be.

5. Finally, be open to learning and doing things differently than you have in the past.

Most of all, talk to your wife. Just because sex is working for you, doesn’t mean it is working for her.  I have seen too many marriages where men assumed everything was fine and didn’t realize there was a problem till it was too late.

Ask her honestly how things could be better for her and listen to what she says.  If she is looking for more, but doesn’t know how to get there either, then seek out good resources together (like The Orgasm Course!).  Couples struggle for far too long with simple problems because they didn’t seek the help they needed. And there is help out there!  Our “Orgasm Course” has lots of fantastic information to help you and your wife in this area. Sheila and her team put TONS of work into this and it is just excellent. 

This whole blog is dedicated to building an amazing sexual relationship in your marriage and I hope you find lots here to help. But one of the major keys to seeing that happen is for us husbands to see sex as something that is meant for both the husband and the wife and dedicate ourselves to making sure she derives as much enjoyment from it as we do.

So let’s do this!

What do you think? Is there another tip you’d add? Let’s talk in the comments!

Written by

Keith Gregoire

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Keith Gregoire

Author at Bare Marriage

Keith has been married to Sheila for over 30 years! They met while he was in pre-med at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario. He has served as Chief of Pediatrics in the Quinte Region, and has been the chair of undergraduate pediatric medical education at Queen's University, and participated in the Royal College examination board for new pediatricians. He is the co-author with Sheila of The Good Guy's Guide to Great Sex, and a new marriage book they're working on. An avid birder, he loves traveling with Sheila all over North America in their RV.

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32 Comments

  1. Jo R

    “Ask her honestly how things could be better for her and listen to what she says.”

    Unless she has fully internalized the “teaching” that she must not ever do or say anything that would seem to impugn her husband’s leadership, ego, or abilities. If so, will she even be able to articulate what she feels, what she wants, what she needs?

    That “teaching” is why women (and men) find themselves in this situation in the first place.

    From day one, if she’s experiencing pain during sex, she’s supposed to just push through, to ignore it, to let him finish (“because it will be over so quick” 🙄).

    If she ever starts to feel anything pleasurable, she’s allowed to moan or say something positive, but if he changes what he’s doing and it stops feeling good, she’s not supposed to issue any directive or corrective like “Slow back down” or “Speed back up” or “Go back to the left again.” Because that would be construed as “teaching a man” or it might make him “feel bad” (HER feeling bad, or even no longer feeling good, is of course of zero consequence).

    A first step is for many men to realize that his being “good at sex” really only means that he’s good at using her body to bring himself to orgasm. If he can’t understand and admit that distinction first, does any of the rest of it really matter? If he can’t make that simple admission, will he even be able to agree with, let alone follow, any of the listed steps?

    Reply
  2. Jane Eyre

    I think steps 0 and 0.5 are:

    0. Understand that you aren’t entitled to one-sided sex, and you wouldn’t tolerate one-sided sex in the other direction; and

    0.5: God made her body differently than yours, but her drive for satisfaction is the same. Christian teaching gets this backwards: it assumes we are “broken” for not operating in a male timeline but we don’t need pleasure and release.

    Stop mocking God’s design for sex by expecting her to be a man in ways in which she’s a woman (anatomically) and a woman in ways that she’s like a man (wanting release and orgasm).

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Great points!

      Reply
  3. Matt

    I purchased the Orgasm course, but I’m not seeing the husband section added to it. How do I claim it?

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      It’ll show up in your course portal this morning!

      Reply
  4. Boone

    I’d like to throw out a situation that I encountered with a client a few years back.
    A nice looking gentleman about 50 came to my office about probating his father’s estate. The father had owned about 400 acres of land in several tracts over in Sevier County. I explained the probate process to him. He then told me that he wanted a divorce. He said that he was tired of everything being his fault. He was tired of being griped at constantly and he was tired of extremely bad sex every other month. He said that she could have the house, her Mercedes, half of the savings and investments and half of his retirement. He would make no claim against her real estate company. All he wanted were his guns, his tools, a few family heirlooms, his truck his Jeep and his dog.
    It’s rare that I get somebody that over it so I asked him to elaborate.
    He told me that his wife had a total hysterectomy about 20 years ago. She had refused any hormone replacement therapy. Her libido tanked and she turned mean. He said that they had sex roughly every other month. It was always the same position, the same place and the same time. She doesn’t kiss him. She doesn’t touch him and he doesn’t see her face. It’s hurry up and get done. Then he hands her a vibrator and she gets herself over the top. I asked him if he tried anything to make it better for her. He replied that she wouldn’t let him. He said oral sex actually got her worked up and naturally lubricated. She’d then orgasm from PIV sex multiple times but she refused to do it. He mentioned a couple of other things that gave her explosive orgasms but she refused to do them.
    What’s a guy in that situation supposed to do?
    Now, before people start in with he probably did this and he probably did that let me tell you that is not the case. This guy was an investment counselor. He managed millions in other people’s money every day. He cooked, he cleaned and he made sure that everything at home was fixed and working. The wife mostly worked. She was never home. Their daughter was newly married.
    Oh, I got him out of it. He liquidated all but an about 100 acres of his dad’s land in the probate process to avoid taxes, moved into and updated his dad’s house. He’s semi retired and has a girlfriend in her early 40’s.

    Reply
    • Jane Eyre

      It’s funny – you say “before people start in with he probably did this and he probably did that,” and all I think is, I’ve heard enough to know that she’s the problem.

      If he were passive aggressive or unwilling to be a partner to her, he wouldn’t be so over it that he’s ready to give her more than half and be done; he would be insisting on getting every penny and then some. People generally don’t get nicer during the divorce than they do during marriage. His go-to is a sane and reasonable request for division of assets? That’s probably who he is.

      Reply
      • Viva

        Ummm… not sure that he was nice or equitable.
        Sounds like he made off with way more than half since he was strategic pre-divorce: his multimillion dollar business, 100 acres, a house and likely other undisclosed assets. Now he’s semiretired, has a girlfriend a decade younger.
        I wonder if his wife is how he described.
        There’s an appearance and assertion of generosity but even the glowing description of him raises some concerns in my view.
        I think it’s likely that he took advantage of systems and narratives that make it easier for men to look good than actually be good.

        Reply
        • Boone

          I hate to burst your bubble but wife’s real estate company was appraised at six million. She also owned three million worth of short term rentals. The paid off house she got appraised at just over a million. She netted about $600K per year in income. His and was entitled to half of that. He walked away just to get she’d of her. He worked a commission with bonuses job managing other people’s money and netted about $300K per year. Savings and investments were just over 2 million which they split.
          Under TN law inheritance is not considered part of the marital estate unless it is commingled with marital assets. I made sure that it all stayed right in the estate account until 30 days after the divorce was final.
          She admitted his accusations under oath in deposition filed with the court and public record.

          Reply
          • Sheila Wray Gregoire

            Boone, I’ve heard of stories like this one a lot, and here’s what I’d say: when women have a great marriage and a great sex life, they don’t just stop sex out of the blue, even after a hysterectomy. Because they actually enjoyed it! They liked it! So if their sex drive went away, they’d want desperately to fix it.

            If they do stop, it’s likely because something was wrong for a long time, and this was just the final straw and she couldn’t keep doing it anymore.

            I’m not saying she didn’t contribute to the problem in some way. But women who love sex and have good marriages don’t just stop having sex. They don’t.

            But a LOT of women stop having sex completely twenty years in. A lot. And often the husbands are left wondering why and really upset, just like this guy. But if you trace it back, there were really bad dynamics and she was trying to go along with it, and she just couldn’t anymore. Sometimes it’s porn use on his part so sex is degrading; sometimes it’s because her pleasure wasn’t prioritized; sometimes it’s because he never connects unless he wants sex; it could be any number of things.

            But this idea that women have great sex and then one day just stop for no reason needs to leave. Because it just doesn’t happen. It doesn’t. We’ve seen the numbers. When people stop having sex, there’s a reason.

    • Russell

      How does she feel about hugs? Snuggling? Showering together? Walking together holding hands?

      All human beings need and crave physical contact; we don’t actually *need* orgasm (though sometimes it feels like we do, and then see my comment below).

      Also, he was having *intercourse* with her while she displayed the level of revulsion you describe? The proper term for that isn’t “bad sex”, it’s “rape”.

      Reply
      • Jane Eyre

        You’re a man. Please do not try to tell us that we don’t “need” orgasm.

        No, I haven’t died without it… but having borne a child and not had one, I actually don’t care if my husband lives or dies, or if our marriage survives or ends. The lack of orgasm despite sex and pregnancy really, really warped me and took a sledgehammer to our marriage.

        Reply
        • Russell

          I’m sorry, I really expressed that poorly…. The “we don’t need orgasm” was directed at the *man* in this situation. The point I was trying to make that even if she had lost interest in sex, they could still build space for rich, close physical contact into their relationship, and then he might find that the lack of sex didn’t matter so much.

          The way your husband treated you is awful and wrong. For him to go on having sex with you when you weren’t enjoying it, especially if you *wanted* to figure out orgasm and he couldn’t be bothered to try, is despicable.

          In my own marriage, sex is great for both of us, but I’m in the mood all the time, and my wife is only in the mood once a month, if I’m lucky. For years the accommodation was that when I just couldn’t take it any more, she would let me do some dry humping (i.e. rubbing together with clothes on) (because again, it should be totally *unthinkable* that I should have any right to get inside her clothes if she wasn’t interested). But even that, which seemed harmless enough, made her feel used, so we stopped doing it (see comment below).

          Luckily for me, my wife *loves* all the nonsexual types of physical contact, as long as they are safely defined as not a precursor to sex. And I’m so grateful to have been forced to learn how fulfilling those types of contact can be. I wonder sometimes if men act so sex-crazy because we don’t know how to enjoy the other types of touch.

          Reply
        • Russell

          I’m sorry, I really expressed that poorly. The “we don’t need orgasm” in this case was directed at the *man*. My point was that if they could build other kinds of rich, close physical contact into their relationship, he might find that the lack of sex didn’t matter so much.

          The way your husband treated you is awful and wrong. For him to go on having sex with you when you aren’t enjoying it, especially if you *want* orgasm and he can’t be bothered to figure it out, is despicable.

          In my own marriage, sex is great for both of us, but I’m in the mood all the time, and my wife is only in the mood once a month, if I’m lucky. For years the accommodation was dry humping (rubbing together clothed) (because again, it should be *unthinkable* that I would have a right to get inside her clothes when she wasn’t interested). But even that made her feel used, and we eventually stopped (see comment below).

          But all that led me to discover how fulfilling the *nonsexual* types of contact can be, and I’m intensely grateful for that. And grateful that my wife loves that kind of contact, as long as it’s safely defined as not a precursor to sex. I think a lot of men feel sex-crazed but they’re really just touch-starved.

          Reply
      • Jo R

        Does the “we” in “we don’t actually *need* orgasm” refer to all human beings, or just the female ones?

        Because all the “Christian” marriage and sex books I read in the 80s, 90s, and 00s sure as 🤬 said MEN *need* orgasms, when they want them and preferably with variety as to how they were to be produced. 🤔

        And note that for many men, even the slightest nonsexual touch was generally a down payment on intercourse that same day. That’s why so many wives sleep all the way on the edge of the bed, so that we can avoid even accidentally touching our husbands with a toe while rolling over, because that small of a contact “activates the launch sequence.” 🙄

        Reply
        • Russell

          Primarily aimed at the male humans, actually. And those books lied to us all.

          I’m so glad though that you brought up the “every touch is an invitation” thing, because that was exactly my experience. For years, when I thought sex was something I needed, arousal seemed like that sort of automatic “launch sequence” that could be triggered by just about anything and then had to end in either orgasm or frustration.

          But at some point, I became convicted that I needed to give up my entitlement and stop asking for orgasms all the time. I did that with great trepidation, thinking now I was just going to be sexually frustrated *all the time* — and to my utter astonishment, found instead that I stopped feeling sexually frustrated at all, even though I was having orgasms only a couple times a month.

          The amazing thing I’ve discovered is that if I accept that sex is off the table, we can enjoy all kinds of physical contact that before would have driven me crazy with desire, and my body doesn’t “start its engines” because I’m not assuming sex is always available unless she gives an unambiguous signal that it is.

          (To be fully honest, there are still a few times a month when I get set off even without that signal. Then I ask if I can have an orgasm in a way that doesn’t “use” her. But the “men just need it all the time” was a lie. I think the authors just thought it was easier to pressure wives into giving men sex all the time than it was to teach men self-control)

          Reply
          • Jo R

            Maybe you should write a book! 😊

        • Nessie

          Tagging onto this because JoR mentioned the edge of the bed issue. I slept many nights for many years on the edge/with one foot literally on the floor to keep from falling out as I struggled not to “activate” my husband with any accidental touch. Not surprisingly, this often led to me sleeping(poor quality rest) in a chair elsewhere. Also, the nights he reached orgasm but I did not meant I was awake for hours.

          So my question to bring this back around: Do many women in the 19% or 33% struggle with sleep problems now as I do? It’s like I was forced into sleep-training myself to be on high alert and sleep lightly to avoid all contact, or was left wide awake while he was lulled to sleep by orgasm.

          If a husband has contributed to similar sleep issues of his wife, he needs to understand she needs enough rest (including feeling safe enough in her own bed to sleep deeply) before (probably) she will want to have mutual, pleasurable sex. And if he has contributed to a long term problem, it may take a long time to recover from that exhaustion/sleep-re-training she may need to go through.

          Reply
          • Jo R

            I remembered the foot-on-the-floor sleeping position, but I couldn’t remember who said it.

            I’m so sorry you experienced that and continue to have issues. Sleep deprivation sucks.

            And yes, getting aroused and not orgasming sucks too, just adding to the sleep deprivation as you wait for your body to wind back down. I wonder if any men have ever experienced that situation? 🤔

            Hugs if you want ’em.

          • Sheila Wray Gregoire

            Oh, wow, that’s such an interesting and heartbreaking question. I would imagine the answer is likely yes. Especially with how many women are also traumatized by being woken up to him having sex with her, and then being afraid to sleep in case you’re assaulted.

          • Nessie

            Sheila, yes, part of my story is being woken up in the middle of the night by having my privates grabbed though he never “forced” me physically from there. This wasn’t maliciously done, but rather came from his ignorance and some processing issues, as well as our belief in the church’s teachings that he had a “need” I couldn’t understand.

            He has stopped those behaviors and continues to try to work on things including repenting but after roughly 2 decades of it I think my body just doesn’t often feel safe enough to fall into a deep sleep. I can usually sleep fine when I’m out of town solo.

            As more research is done in the future, maybe that is another outcome to explore (by y’all or others.)

            JoR, thanks.

          • Jo R

            “I can usually sleep fine when I’m out of town solo.”

            That’s a pretty damning statement, and it seems like all the proof anybody else should need.

            (Damning against HIM, not you!)

          • Nessie

            JoR- It is, and he admits that without trying to defend himself, and is trying to figure out ways he can repent and follow through with those actions. He understands/accepts he has lost the hope of physical contact until I reach a point of wanting it which may be years or never.

          • Jo R

            Is it much consolation to you that he admits it?

            I don’t know that I would be particularly consoled, but that’s the first step that so many men absolutely refuse to take, so … 🤷

            I’m so sorry for what you are going through. 😢

          • Nessie

            I’m not really looking for consolation.

            My life has a fair bit of crap in it. Narcissistic mom. Two SILs with personality disorders who are hateful as all get out and keep kids from me to punish me for trying to be healthy (I can neither keep up with nor go along with their many lies, so I must be punished). None of them has ever once apologized much less accepted that they have things to work on nor put in any effort to work on themselves and stop blaming me. He admits to, apologizes for, and puts in work to try to change and repent.

            So, yes, my husband has a long way to go and nothing will ever fully make up for what I have gone through and lost, but it is my choice to keep pushing forward, to hope for beauty from these ashes. I know you mean well for me but please don’t try to stomp out the hope I’m clinging to.

          • Jo R

            Oh, Nessie, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean to add to your pain.

          • Nessie

            I know your heart, JoR, and thanks for caring so passionately about women and how horribly we’ve been treated- I’m just in a different place in my journey now. 💗

  5. Russell

    Regarding the “sex is meant to be mutual” section: What if, instead of calling it “one-sided sex”, we called it “using your spouse as a prop for your masturbation”? I think that would be a more accurate description of the emotional dynamics. If it’s not mutual, it’s not really sex, and it’s inescapably about using and being used.

    If you really feel you desperately need sex and your spouse just isn’t in the mood, instead of asking them to “help you out” or let you do something to their body, what about just asking them to be reassuringly (but not sexily) present while you masturbate? Then they are communicating, “This is ok, I don’t despise your desires, you don’t have to sneak off to do this”, but also firmly maintaining their own bodily integrity, their right not to be used.

    I’m guessing many people would find that a disturbing idea. Why? Shouldn’t the more disturbing thing be asking someone to allow you to use their body in a way that they don’t desire or enjoy?

    I suppose another possible objection is, “I need to use my spouse or I can’t get there”. But then I would dispute whether you’re really feeling so much desire that you “need” an orgasm. Are you using your spouse, like pornography, to push your sex drive to a higher frequency than your body would naturally want?

    Reply
    • Lisa Johns

      I do find that disturbing, because my ex actually preferred masturbation to any kind of intimacy. I can’t imagine trying to “be supportive” while I knew he was masturbating — again… I would find it deeply humiliating, and I honestly can not imagine a situation where a wife could watch that, even if she didn’t want sex, without it being a further turnoff. Sorry, I’m not trying to be combative here, but that just sounds to weird to me.

      Reply
      • Russell

        Thank you for responding, and I want to apologize, because I realize once again that I’m working from assumptions that don’t match most people’s experience.

        The scenario I have in mind when I think of a man “needing” an orgasm is that we’ve been having what should have been a nice quiet snuggle, but somehow my body got the wrong signal and now I’m all worked up and want release. This happens to me maybe twice a month.

        At that point I’m far enough along that fifteen seconds of rubbing is all it takes to get there. The suggestion I’m making in my post is simply that instead of rubbing against her leg, which makes her feel used and allows me to pretend this somehow expresses love for her, it’s more emotionally honest to do it myself.

        I think masturbation is a painful topic because for many men it’s woven in with other behaviors (like porn use or sexual fantasy) that their wives rightly feel are deeply betraying. But for us that’s not in the picture, so the question is more about honoring her by not using or objectifying her.

        Maybe this is opening another can of worms, but more and more I’m convinced there’s nothing wrong with taking yourself through the sexual response cycle and enjoying the sensations, if it’s just about the physical sensations and doesn’t involve fantasy or porn or other objectification. My wife and I have talked about doing that sort of innocent experimentation as kids when we were first figuring out sexuality, and though it seemed shameful at the time, looking back it really just seems healthy and natural.

        It does still seem “weird” to me, too, honestly, but I think that weirdness is largely driven by a healthy sort of vulnerability that I was able to sidestep when I was pretending there was something mutual-ish going on.

        Reply
  6. Willow

    I know Sheila (and Keith) have talked about this a lot elsewhere, but as it’s not mentioned on this page, I’ll add that I personally feel that step #1 has to be a foundation of safety, mutual love, respect, empathy, and partnership. Those are the things that make it desirable to have sex with one’s spouse.

    If people are having sex without that foundation, by just going off their hormones/urges or the other person’s physical attractiveness, it may work for a while if they can get all their mechanics right and/or be extremely physically aroused – like people do when they’re dating or having affairs – but it’s not really a long-term success manual.

    I find sex/orgasm in marriage (or lack thereof) to be a symptom of the underlying relationship. If there is a good relationship, the partners will want to have sex – and that’s where an anatomy or other book can be helpful in making the sex physically better for both partners. If there are problems in the relationship, be it dissatisfaction, uneven mental load, power struggle, past trauma, all the way down the spectrum to physical, psychological, and other types of harm – well then, the first thing to do is to figure out how to stop the harm and fix the relationship, and then the better sex can be worked on.

    Too many times, it seems the answer is to “keep having sex” while trying to fix the problems in the relationship, and the body will keep the score – meaning, the body will remember that it’s doing something it doesn’t want to do, and then there are more layers of the onion to get through to eventually access pleasure.

    Reply
    • Sheila Wray Gregoire

      Absolutely. The idea that you should just push through with sex when sex is actually causing trauma (which it can if the marriage is unsafe) is so dangerous.

      Reply

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